The Greater Good
As a frequent subway-riding, bag-carrying New Yorker who is coincidentally swarthy in complexion, the news that cops will start random searches of people on subways, commuter railways and buses obviously interests me.
Where to start on this one?
How about with a fundamental question: can this actually work? Will it make us safer? While reasonable people can debate it endlessly, my sense is that this is folly. There are thousands of points of entry into the New York City public transportation system. If a terrorist is trying to enter the subway system, for example, and sees a cop waiting, he can simply turn around and leave. He can come back later, try another point of entry, or get on a bus or commuter train. And if he somehow does get singled out for a search, he can simply refuse and be allowed to leave the system. Someone intent on a subway attack is not going to be deterred by an average beat cop standing at a turnstile any more than a serial killer is deterred by the death penalty. Essentially, the system is too large and open to "protect" in any preventative sense.
In addition, I have absolutely zero confidence in the ability of the average underpaid and overworked New York City cop to understand, apply and adhere to the rigorous standards for racial profiling established by our judicial system. Other law enforcement officers such as state troopers go through extensive sophisticated training on this, and are monitored constantly for abuses. And that does not end problems with profiling, as we occasionally see with highway stops. Turning thousands of cops loose inside the public transportation system with a not-so-vague notion of what the "enemy" looks like and giving them free rein to grab anyone they want at rush hour? You don't think that's going to cause some serious problems? Get ready for a deluge of media reports---as well as lawsuits---about those pulled aside based on complexion or ethnicity.
But even if we temporarily stipulate that this may deter potential attacks, we must then consider the trade-offs. What do we give up for this extra sliver of safety?
One of the immediate effects of 9/11 was public adulation of the police and fire departments. They became heroes, and everyone from Rudy Giuliani at Yankee games to average citizens on the street wore NYPD and FDNY baseball caps. Inserting the police in such a stark way into the basic fabric of New York City life---the subways, buses and trains---will change that. Do you think joe six-pack who rides the subway every day is going to see the police the same way? Will he keep wearing that NYPD cap after he gets pulled aside by a cop demanding to rifle through his bag?
This has important implications. Society sees its local cops as ticket-writing, neighborhood-patrolling, cruiser-riding monitors of public safety. The role of the cop is generally a passive one; he watches, monitors, and when necessary responds. Transforming that role into one of a gatekeeper and grand inquisitor is a fundamental, radical move. I believe strongly that the public's vigilance and cooperation with law enforcement keeps us far safer from terrorism than the efforts of law enforcement alone. And I think most cops would agree with that. Anything that turns the average cop into an agent of an intrusive, behavior-monitoring state---yes, the police have said that those caught carrying drugs or other contraband during these searches will be arrested---will alter public perception, and thus impact our ability to combat the terrorism this is supposed to prevent. Someone who is pulled aside suddenly (and possibly repeatedly) or sees it happen to friends or family is far less likely to make an extra effort to help the police. That mentality is not too difficult to understand, particularly in New York City.
The broader picture is even more distressing. President Bush is fond of the bromide that "the terrorists hate our way of life." Assuming that's true, why are we helping them achieve their goals via creeping, incremental, self-imposed restrictions on that way of life? Does our way of life not entail the ability to shop or go to work without the possibility of being yanked out of a crowd by the police for absolutely no reason at all?
Do we have more to fear from a terrorist who might get on a bus, or cloying and cowardly public servants who will surrender something the rest of us hold dear so they have a slogan to use during the next election? Is it really so hard to envision us waking up as a nation one day in five or ten years, suddenly realizing how much of our own freedom we've gladly given away in the name of safety, and wondering why we are no safer than when we started down that road?
Then again, maybe all we need is a mirror. From the NYT:
Where to start on this one?
How about with a fundamental question: can this actually work? Will it make us safer? While reasonable people can debate it endlessly, my sense is that this is folly. There are thousands of points of entry into the New York City public transportation system. If a terrorist is trying to enter the subway system, for example, and sees a cop waiting, he can simply turn around and leave. He can come back later, try another point of entry, or get on a bus or commuter train. And if he somehow does get singled out for a search, he can simply refuse and be allowed to leave the system. Someone intent on a subway attack is not going to be deterred by an average beat cop standing at a turnstile any more than a serial killer is deterred by the death penalty. Essentially, the system is too large and open to "protect" in any preventative sense.
In addition, I have absolutely zero confidence in the ability of the average underpaid and overworked New York City cop to understand, apply and adhere to the rigorous standards for racial profiling established by our judicial system. Other law enforcement officers such as state troopers go through extensive sophisticated training on this, and are monitored constantly for abuses. And that does not end problems with profiling, as we occasionally see with highway stops. Turning thousands of cops loose inside the public transportation system with a not-so-vague notion of what the "enemy" looks like and giving them free rein to grab anyone they want at rush hour? You don't think that's going to cause some serious problems? Get ready for a deluge of media reports---as well as lawsuits---about those pulled aside based on complexion or ethnicity.
But even if we temporarily stipulate that this may deter potential attacks, we must then consider the trade-offs. What do we give up for this extra sliver of safety?
One of the immediate effects of 9/11 was public adulation of the police and fire departments. They became heroes, and everyone from Rudy Giuliani at Yankee games to average citizens on the street wore NYPD and FDNY baseball caps. Inserting the police in such a stark way into the basic fabric of New York City life---the subways, buses and trains---will change that. Do you think joe six-pack who rides the subway every day is going to see the police the same way? Will he keep wearing that NYPD cap after he gets pulled aside by a cop demanding to rifle through his bag?
This has important implications. Society sees its local cops as ticket-writing, neighborhood-patrolling, cruiser-riding monitors of public safety. The role of the cop is generally a passive one; he watches, monitors, and when necessary responds. Transforming that role into one of a gatekeeper and grand inquisitor is a fundamental, radical move. I believe strongly that the public's vigilance and cooperation with law enforcement keeps us far safer from terrorism than the efforts of law enforcement alone. And I think most cops would agree with that. Anything that turns the average cop into an agent of an intrusive, behavior-monitoring state---yes, the police have said that those caught carrying drugs or other contraband during these searches will be arrested---will alter public perception, and thus impact our ability to combat the terrorism this is supposed to prevent. Someone who is pulled aside suddenly (and possibly repeatedly) or sees it happen to friends or family is far less likely to make an extra effort to help the police. That mentality is not too difficult to understand, particularly in New York City.
The broader picture is even more distressing. President Bush is fond of the bromide that "the terrorists hate our way of life." Assuming that's true, why are we helping them achieve their goals via creeping, incremental, self-imposed restrictions on that way of life? Does our way of life not entail the ability to shop or go to work without the possibility of being yanked out of a crowd by the police for absolutely no reason at all?
Do we have more to fear from a terrorist who might get on a bus, or cloying and cowardly public servants who will surrender something the rest of us hold dear so they have a slogan to use during the next election? Is it really so hard to envision us waking up as a nation one day in five or ten years, suddenly realizing how much of our own freedom we've gladly given away in the name of safety, and wondering why we are no safer than when we started down that road?
Then again, maybe all we need is a mirror. From the NYT:
Pete Friedes, 63, a retired computer executive who recently moved to Manhattan from Chicago, said he was willing to tolerate the searches. "If it's a policeman, you have to put up with it," he said. "In general, people will accept it. The government has the right to try and protect us."Or, as Ben Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Eileen Chua, 49, a nurse who is visiting from Singapore, said she would not be bothered by having her packages searched. Asked if police searches would make her feel safer, she replied: "It does. It definitely does."
78 Comments:
Criticism without recommendations as to what needs to be done to correct the situation is pretty much useless.
Recommendations about what to do? Why do politicans and civil servant think that they need to justify their jobs by finding something "to do"? TCR's post is quite clear that in this instance that the action being taken is far less preferable the status quo.
When it comes to fear, the American public can be coaxed into any decision that those in power really want to make. The media knows how to keep attention to their programs by hyping it, and politicians know who to reward when it comes to selling it (think 'military industrial complex').
Is the goal of NYC to prevent every single catastrophic event that might occur? Of course not - the infrastructure is far too open to stop any and all would-be radical or mentally unstable person from causing panic. It appears the steps taken are to relieve the thought of fear, as in, "We're at least doing something to protect our citizens." But TCR is pointing out that this protection is quite thin so his question seems to be along the lines of: Is this really helping?
It would seem that Americans for all their bravado and pride when sending battalion after battalion abroad for war 'over there' tend to cower a great deal at the thought of danger right here. Traffic deaths in the U.S. far outweigh any bombing victims around the globe, save maybe Iraq.
We should be careful where we rank our fears today.
- David Boyer
Interesting discussion on this over on a Washington Monthly post.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_07/006771.php
Now I know people will say but if one terrorist is stopped it will be worth it - but if being this operative word. If I thought that things like the would actually work I might be a bit more supportive, however, I think this is a fairly useless exercise in PR.
First, to restate the obvious - this is so not going to be random in practice. Second, lets get to the actual logistics of this. Even if every NY city cop was on the subway and bus system and spent all of their shift checking bags they still would only look in a small fraction of the bags that were there to be searched. Now make that random and the number drops precipitiously. Let's not forget that not every NY cop will do this and they sure as hell won't be doing it for their entire shift and the numbers drop to a point that they are pretty much seem statistically incalculable. So tell me, what are the odds that one of these randomly check bags are going to yield something.
The there are the terrorists themseves. They have all the time in the world to plan these incidents. And in the execution of this if there is a blip like a bag-checking cop, like CR says all they have to do is walk away before being confronted and just come back another day. Or better yet, wait until this bag-checking eases up - and we all know it will because the system can't maintain it indefinitely.
I am quite sure there are other ways the city spend money/time that might be more useful than this. This is another example of "security" instituted to to make feel better that in the end won't really make anyone necessarily safer.
And if this policy is in place and there is an incident then does anyone seriously think that these random searches would have stopped it and that people would have felt that "at least something was done?" Please. And if this policy is not in place and an incident happens I doubt anyone will seriously be saying "well random searches would have caught them."
I just wish there was a honest and open discussion of security procedures - then we might get have a better chance of things that actually make sense and work.
Well put. I 100% agree with your post. Beyond being ineffective, this type of search is likely not Constitutional under our current case law. Justice Roberts may end up being a pivotal vote when this issue reaches the Court, which it eventually will.
Memo To Self:
Avoid going to NYC.
i think this was a great post and an important topic. Look at London, they have cameras all over the place and they still couldnt stop a bombing. Having a couple boys in blue checking "random" bags at subway/train stations is a waste of a precious resource. For every cop that is standing around checking a few bags every now and then there is the distinct opportunity cost of that officer not being somewhere else that might need police around. This is similar to the reason why it is illegal to call in prank phone calls to 911. It wastes the time and money of a vital city department. If a firetruck has to go check out a false alarm that means that if there is a fire somewhere else that truck isnt available. Same principle if a cop is needed somewhere but he/she is busy checking bags so that a politician can get reelected and people can have the ILLUSION of safety
how about putting more money into beefing up Anti-terror agencies in NYC instead of paying cops overtime to be ineffective in the subways when we need them on the streets?
Society sees its local cops as ticket-writing, neighborhood-patrolling, cruiser-riding monitors of public safety.
White society, yes. Do you know any black people?
If these searches are going to be truly random then all that would happen is now everyone would know what it's like to be an average African American. Might not be a bad thing actually.
I'm not black by the way, I'm female white and grew up in the suburbs. I see the cops the way you described. But from having male black friends in their 20s and seeing what they go through I know there's another side.
That's not why I disagree with the subway plan. Like the rest of you I think it simply won't work.
Seems to me what's needed most to combat terrorism in this country is good intelligence. We don't have it and are far away from getting it. Years of neglect - field agents' warnings ignored by management, interagency turf battles, funds going to contractors rather than agents, Arabic translators and intelligence agents getting kicked out of the military for being gay. Just a bunch of different factors over the last several years have set us so far back.
Maybe there's something I'm missing but it seems like the Madrid and London groups found and arrested the terrorists responsible for their attacks really fast compared to us.
I have no problem with people being pulled over in cars or pulled aside on the streets for just cause.
I don't see that this operation fits that description. Those of you who put fear ahead of liberty apparently didn't know or read the Franklin quote at the bottom of this thread.
Average German citizens prior to WWII supported Hitlers actions leading up to a totalitarian police state because of their fears. Be careful. It can happen here too. If you don't think so, go out and READ some books. Don't just get your knowledge from the TV.
Fellow New Yorker here. Just took a subway ride from Astoria, Queens to Herald Square in Manhanttan (34th Street and 6th Ave/Broadway area). I think TCR's post is quite on the spot. Do I think this will be effective? No. Do I feel this is a massive invasion of personal privacy? Yes, especially when combined with the provisions in the Patriot act where one's medical records and library records can be seized without notification to the individual. Big Brother much?
However, do I have a viable alternative at the moment? No. I just know that while seeing the police officer with the M-16 rifle on the corner of 7th Ave and 35th Street was a little unnerving, I know he isn't going to make a world of difference against someone who wants to blow themselves up and take out as much around him as possible. The guard at my sister's base in Iraq (sister is a Staff Sgt. in the Army) had an M-16. It didn't help much when the suicide bomber come up and killed him and injuried a number of soldiers around him.
Folks, this is small potatoes compared to where this could take us. As years may go by with increasing restrictions, the people on the street are going to start asking some serious questions about what the hell is happening to our way of life. And guess where that’s going to lead them? Yup, right back to the age-old misery of the Jews causing all the problems. If Israel would quit pissing off the Arabs then we’d get our peace back. You think it can’t happen. Think again…
at this point, this is beyond israel.
Great post that articulates my thoughts exactly.
I would like to note that the NYT had to find someone from Singapore to feel safer under a more intense police presence.
This bag search plan could never be effective because any crafty person could thwart this inconvenience and still terrorize.
"underpaid and overworked" cops?
One of the undertold stories of the "War on Terror" is the financial windfall it's been for "security" forces. Most of the time when I see NYC cops in the subway they're gathered in groups of a half dozen or so seemingly shooting the breeze with each other. I don't even want to know how much overtime they're booking standing around socializing. Now mandatory bag checks? What a waste of time and tax money with, I would estimate, minimal results.
I read that Tony Blair wants to have a conference this fall to discuss what is causing it, what can be done about it, etc.
This may be a stupid question, but I don't even know what the terrorist want. Without going into details, I don't think it is really they hate our freedom and I don't think it is religion (they may say it and use it to get recruits; but that is no different than using Christianity in the US to stir people up); could it be blowback. People don't talk about it much, but we trained Bin Laden when we wanted to get Russia out of Afghanistan never thinking he might use his knowledge against us. A long time ago I wrote a paper on the 1972 Olympics; I guess that would be my first exposure to terrorism. I met some folks from Ireland and I asked about the IRA. Of course we had our own Tim McVeigh. I'm glad I don't live in NY City, nor do I have any desire to visit it. But I don't think this will work either for the reasons given. We appear to be very reactionary.
How about dogs? The prospect of smuggling explosives past a big bomb-sniffing German Shepard doesn't sound so easy. Dogs don't profile, get results and work for food. I would actually feel safer with Fido around.
Personally, as long as there are suicide attacks, I'm not interested in what terrorists want. There can be no dialogue with people who are out of their mind. As to the random searches, are they going to occur a lot? If it's going to slow down people's transportation, it will become inconvenient very quickly, especially in a city where everyone is in a rush except to wait on line for tickets. One terrorist expert said on TV that random searches work. As TCR says, if it becomes too intrusive, there will undoubtedly be stories in the media and lawsuits, and eventually a balance will be found.
interesting, good post TCR thanks.
I agree with the others, TCR! Great, great post, especially after all of the "if you have nothing to hide" and "it makes us safer" dreck that I've been exposed to via Craig's List and the media reports.
I'm a lifelong liberal (no, not knee-jerk), and I just KNEW that there HAD to be conservatives out here who, like me, are saying to themselves, "WTF?!" and for many of the same reasons.
Again, thanks.
Having lived in NY - this is a COMPLETE waste of time.
The reason individual terrorism works is because it is completely asymmetrical - there is no defense against it. The whole premise is that any single person that you see could be on a mission - any briefcase could be a bomb, any coat could conceal a gun. Terrorists can trivially circumvent this effort.
Attacking it head-on only plays into the goals of the terrorists. There are only two effective ways of dealing with terrorists like these - intelligence gathering (which these searches are not doing) and elimination of the root causes. People don't blow themselves up without a reason. It might be a stupid reason, an unpleasant reason but there's a reason and it can be addressed. Saying that they are out of their mind is a cop-out. That works for loners, but you cannot claim that 4 people organized themselves and collectively went insane - it doesn't work like that.
These aren't one-off loonies like the Unabomber, it's a movement that is able to recruit members, therefore, they have a rational reason for what they are doing. Address that and you'll deflate their ability to recruit. Gather intelligence, and you can head them off before they act. Miss that chance, and all you can hope to do is change their target. Sure, they'll stay off the subway, so instead they'll get on a bus, or the LIRR, or PATH, or the ferry, or an elevator in Citicorp building, or what have you. Once they *decide* to act, we've lost.
How long before we're like the former East Germany, where everyone spies on each other, and 'privacy' is a theoretical term with no meaning at all?
Jeff Lawson
I am still startled every time I see the national guard patrolling Penn Station armed with rifles. Why are they there? What do they do besides looking intimidating? Are they even allowed to stop suspicious looking types?
The first poster complained about criticism without recommendations which is an unfair comment. Under Ray Kelly, the police commissioner, the NYPD has expanded its counterterrorism unit. I am quite pleased that the NYPD does not rely on the FBI to keep terrorists out of NY and that it sends its own guys around the world. And the NYPD can more easily find out what's going on in the street than the FBI.
This new policy though is dumb. No racial profiling is idiotic. If young, arab looking muslim types are the most likely candidates to commit terrorist attacks, shouldn't the police stop more of them?
I am curious to see how this operation will pan out. Will the police be searching more bags in high-visibility Manhattan than the rest of the boroughs? If I were a muslim terrorist, I'd get on the train at Broadway Junction in East New York where a lot of people looked like me and the odds would be against me being stopped.
The other idiocy is that people who refuse to searched can walk away and not get on the train. Let's see here - if a police officer stops a suspicious- looking muslim type guy who appears nervous and the guy refuses to have his bag searched, that's the end of story?
Searching people's bags is not going to stop any determined terrorist and I am surprised at how many people think it is a good idea. What's the next step? Will police ride the trains and searchg bags? And if there is a terrorist attack, will the police start stopping anyone on the street to search their bags? Where does it end?
One awful consequence of 9/11 is that the government has gotten a lot better at scaring the citizenry. Scared people are easy to manipulate and control. And to what end?
Bend over, oh swarthy one. But make sure you cover your privates and watch your valuables. Soothe yourself with the thought that this is all for truth, justice and the American way.
It doesn't matter that this endeavor will be absolutely useless. That such screening should be done either on a 100% basis or not at all. That, if you're going to do this randomly, profiling might not be a bad start: not just on the dreaded ethnicity, but on age, physical characteristics, etc. What matters is that, "by golly, we're doing something, The American people will be protected."
We really are a cowardly lot, aren't we? And our politicians continue to feed on our cowardice.
The solution to all these terrorists' attacks were spelled out openly today by someone in Iraq who said that the reason
why these attacks are being executed is because they want the foreign troops out of Iraq. Since we have a very stubborn administration and a not so less stubborn Blair, terrorism will flourish.
The Russian occupation of Afghanistan did not succeed. The 9/11 happened because Bin Laden did not want US bases in the Middle East - Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia. The terrorism that
has been going on against Israel, is for the same purpose, occupation of their lands. And now we have Iraq which
is obviously an occupation.
So if the powers that be would be less arrogant and more understanding they would end this conflict. Blair since
the 7/7 attack has acted as arrogantly and defiantly
as Bush after the 9/11 attack and fortunately the second attack in London
did not succeed, nevertheless, the terrorists' aim is to get their view accross. In Egypt, at Sharm El Sheikh resort, where foreign tourists - Britons, Dutch, Qataris etc.- spend
their vacations, was bombarded and 50 people died and countless wounded.
This is not a matter of "they hate our freedom and our way of life." So how is our way of life now when we have to be searched, be careful, be suspicious, and be fearful? They have indirectly
de
stroyed our way of life and robbed us of our peace of mind.
The bag searching is a waste of time.
It seems to me that the "the Politics
of Fear" is back again. Maybe this would be the distraction that the Administration was looking for from the
"Treason gate, the Perjury gate, the Obstruction of Justice gate".
There is too much money to be spent by
the taxpayers to continue on this senseless war, too much money that is going straight to the Halliburtons, the Bechtel and other contractors, while
the Iraqi people, still have no clean water, no electricity, no sewage, no jobs and their country has been destroyed. Where the 300 billion dollars were spent on? if there is nothing to show for it.
We the people should be asking the questions and insist on getting answers and stop being gullible. The solutions are there if only they would cease the moment and end the suffering of countless of people around the world.
maybe all we need is a mirror indeed!
Next step will be the necessary invasion of our cars and homes for our own safety.
Where does it end?
I have to agree with all those who thinks this is just a "feel good" measure meant to placate the public that the authorities are doing something about the terrorist threat. Of course, it's already too late if a bomber has the bomb in the subway system when he's pulled over to be checked. He can set off his bomb then and there and still cause massive damage. The point is to get these guys before they get out of their hideout and can hurt people. This is the real tough job, but the cops have no clue how to do this. As long as the FBI treats this as a criminal problem, we'll never get very far against them. Oh, and what's with all the automatic weapons being brandished? Does anyone think the terrorists are deterred by a cop with a machine gun? Only people who are impressed by this display of force are the innocents.
I was reading through the comments and about to post that, if caught in a random check, surely a suicide bomber will merely detonate early, so I guess I agree with the previous comment...
The four unexploding bombs in London seem a bit weird to me, as if trying to create additional terror without killing anyone - except of course for the guy who was cornered on a train and shot five times whilst lying on the floor of course...
I agree with everyone here that what's happening is an erosion of the freedom we had by those who tell us they are protecting our freedom...
How comes the MTA still plans to close more token booths and replace them with HEET (high entrance, high exit) turnstiles, which are the 'perfect' traps in case of an emergency?
A so-called 'open system', out of which it is almost impossible to get out of, once a attack - or an 'ordinary' fire, as happened in Jan. on the tracks of the A/C/E line, due to an antiquated relay room - occurs....
I feel safer already :(
Friedman's column in yesterday's NYT was interesting: "Giving the Hatemongers No Place to Hide".
Also, "Why Do They Hate Us? Not Because of Iraq" by Olivier Roy.
And today: "What We Saw in London", by our national security advisor and our homeland security advisor.
9/11 happened long before Iraq, prison atrocities, etc. Terrorists use these events as pretexts, but they are not the real reason. The real reason is that they are unwilling to accept the modern world or people who do not share their world vision.
AMEN!! I love Ben Franklin.
How comes the MTA still plans to close more token booths and replace them with HEET (high entrance, high exit) turnstiles, which are the 'perfect' traps in case of an emergency?
Because the bottom line is what matters to the MTA. How many people might perish in a bombing doesn't matter to them - they're not liable - it's the asset damage that matters and the turnstiles don't impact that.
The MTA sees this as just as much a farce as we do. They know it won't do anything except increase their budget, buy they're in favor of that.
As for the reasoning of the terrorists - unwillingness to accept the modern world only becomes a problem if you force it upon them. I don't see many Amish terrorists in this country. The problem is that the US and UK has forced its world view upon the oil-rich middle east with fairly disastrous results. I don't blame them for opposing it. If Iran (or Canada for that matter) overthrew the US government and imposed a government with a strong religious element in the name of progress (regardless of what that religion was), you could count on me using my considerable technical background to start fashioning bombs as well.
There is protest and there is protest. Suicide bombs target innocent civilians and therefore are not acceptable. Why is it that we can get blamed for anything that goes wrong or is done wrong, but terrorists get excuses for the most horrible actions?
we can get blamed for anything that goes wrong or is done wrong, but terrorists get excuses
That is just not the case, and anyone telling this BS is either an *hole or has a political motive to incite you.
Bottom line, what the terrorist are doing is wrong, and justice should be served. We should understand them, just as we should understand abortion clinic bombers and Tim McVeighs of the world. Why? The main reason, to prevent the possibility of them in the first place! We also want to limit lose of life, including folks that serve in our armed forces, innocent civilians, and use resources like money efficiently. No one, no company, no government (even one made up of "the people") is perfect, and if we are going to continue to survive and improve we need to be able to openingly discuss our good and bad actions. But, no one blows themselves without a reason, and if we are going to stop generations, and generations, and generations of this (if we make it that far), we need to address the root causes. And that is all it is.
Geez. Random searches, huh?
Kind of makes you wonder what will happen when you reach in your bag for your cellphone or PDA. Got to be careful with those now. Could be a detonator, after all, and get you shot.
What do the terrorists want? Just listen to what they say. They want the de-construction of the state of Israel. Ever notice that before 1948, any incidental terrorism from that region was hardly noticed? You're either blind or in denial if you have to ask what the terrorists want.
I think the Brits noticed when the King David Hotel was bombed.
Innocent Brazilian guy shot in head 5 times in London.
Anyone else w/o valid ticket?
Here is the opinion of a security consultant.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/07/searching_bags.html
....."Okay guys; here are your explosives. If one of you gets singled out for a search, just turn around and leave. And then go back in via another entrance, or take a taxi to the next subway stop."
And I don't think they'll be truly random, either. I think the police doing the searching will profile, because that's what happens.
It's another "movie plot threat." It's another "public relations security system." It's a waste of money, it substantially reduces our liberties, and it won't make us any safer.
Final note: I often get comments along the lines of "Stop criticizing stuff; tell us what we should do." My answer is always the same. Counterterrorism is most effective when it doesn't make arbitrary assumptions about the terrorists' plans. Stop searching bags on the subways, and spend the money on 1) intelligence and investigation -- stopping the terrorists regardless of what their plans are, and 2) emergency response -- lessening the impact of a terrorist attack, regardless of what the plans are. Countermeasures that defend against particular targets, or assume particular tactics, or cause the terrorists to make insignificant modifications in their plans, or that surveil the entire population looking for the few terrorists, are largely not worth it.
"Five in the Noggin
Friday, July 22, 2005
By John Gibson
(...) What is also good is the Brit police tactics that we saw at work in the subway Friday morning. The tackle and kill team is incredible, if for no other reason than their bravery. (...)
They like to go about things a bit more quietly than us. Not my style, but okay, fine — as long as they get the five in the noggin of the right bomber boy. They do that and I'm fine.
So for the moment, alls well. Just catch the four bombers. Five in the noggin is fine. Don't complain that sounds barbaric. We're fighting barbaric.
That's My Word.
(...) send your comments to: myword@foxnews.com"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163420,00.html
And somewhere in Brazil a mother is crying for her son...
Funny how quickly they forget that it wasn't "the right bomber boy." Funny how it goes unmentioned in the news that they let this guy ride the bus for two miles before trying to stop him, in spite of the fact that buses have also been targets.
Regarding the subway searches, be sure and check out The Citizen’s Guide to Refusing New York Subway Searches put out by the Flex Your Rights Foundation. It teaches subway riders exactly what they need to know in order to assert their rights when they encounter a subway search.
What about everybody walking past bomb-sniffing dogs? Or is anyone still working on the scanners that detect bombs?
Can anyone here think of a way to stop a bomber, or is everyone going to do say it's pointless just to hear themselves bitch? I remember on 9/11 asking why they couldn't just lock the cockpit door of the plane. One guy told me they couldn't because of air pressure. Well, they must've worked around that. (And yes, I know, some of the hijackers were already in the cockpit. They don't allow courtesy rides in the cabin anymore either.) So, now, any ideas??
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