Monday, July 11, 2005

Truth Or Dare

It's become quite clear that Karl Rove must step down immediately, hasn't it?

It's too early to say he is officially guilty of anything. But what we know at this point is more than a little ugly, and has extremely serious implications. The outing of a CIA agent would be bad enough. But the possibility of the most powerful unelected---and thus unaccountable---White House official trafficking in national secrets as part of an effort to subvert and short-circuit the public debate over the need to go to war? It would certainly be on a par with Watergate, and arguably far more serious. Until we get some clarity on all this, Rove must step aside to salvage what integrity remains for this administration. He certainly cannot be effective if he stays, unless his job is solely to make speeches about Dick Durbin and "the motives of liberals." And he wouldn't even be able to do that well right now. By the way, we now know the genesis of and motive behind that speech: a "get one last shot in while I still can" blast from a man who knew what was about to go down.

And just like Watergate, the question about what the president knew and when he knew it is highly relevant here. Bush is on record and on camera with statements about this. What information did he possess when he said he wanted the leaker to "come forward and speak out"? And in the unlikely event that Bush did not know until now that Rove was involved, isn't the fact that Rove did not admit to this before now---despite the publicly-stated desire of his boss for the leaker to come forward---itself gross insubordination worthy of immediate termination?

Of course, someone else who is abundantly on the record is Scott McClellan. If you can watch this video of the press gaggle today and not think he needs to be replaced, you have more confidence in him than I do. I've thought that he should go for some time now. This is the mouthpiece of the administration and thus the nation at an extremely important time, and it's painfully and embarrassingly clear that at best he is in over his head, and at worst---well, we'll see.

61 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

What I like best about all this is Newsweek breaking this story, after the mag took so much slag over the Koran story. Turnabout is fair play.

7/11/2005 8:06 PM  
Anonymous susiecal said...

about to get interesting!

7/11/2005 8:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That was a very scary press conference to watch.

7/11/2005 8:50 PM  
Anonymous Shep said...

Every hour longer the WH delays Rove's firing/quitting, the more trouble they are in. I would not be the least bit surprised to see it happen tomorrow.

And they'd best not sugar-coat it via a resignation, as they need to pin the whole thing on Rove to save their own bacon, and virtually villify him while they create maximum distance between them.

It ain'g gonna be easy. I think we've finally pulled the hidden string that will unravel this whole sordid affair. A long series of wizard-behind-the-curtain moments await us. That's my bet.

7/11/2005 10:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They could replace McClellan with Bernie Kerik ...

7/11/2005 10:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To do that press secretary job without being in over one's head one would have to be a fascist without a conscience.

7/12/2005 12:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trouble is, Rove IS the face and ethics of the Republican party today. Ain't it something too.

Bush doesn't call him the architect for nothing. It is very depressing these days, with what they have done to the Republican party. It is Rove that says who comes and goes, how high to jump, what to think, who lives to see another day in the life of politics, and can break you with one masterful coordinated attack using anything at his disposal and spreading talking points (who cares if they are true) to Fox, Swift Boaters, Limbaugh, Clear Channel, Sinclair, and other mostly wealthy connected men; obviously they tried to make Wilson go away by any means possible including access and abuse of our national security. Just lovely. Integrity? What integrity? The Republican party gave that up a long time ago when they signed a pact with the devil, and in this case it is Rove and friends.

Surely Bush knew some time ago, yet that didn't stop him from expressing extreme gratitude to Rove during his acceptance speech, and then the topper, giving Rove a promotion. I often wonder who sits in that chair in the oval office. I wonder if Bush has to ask Rove, please may I sit there now. Rove is a ethically-challenged political hack, who is the first of his kind to have an office right in the Oval Office. No wonder everything is being politicized these days. The Republicans can't think for themselves unless Rove makes it a bullet item in the talking points play book.

McClellan is no different than Ari Fleischer. They are paid to lie and promote propaganda to meet an objective.

Rove is making a joke out of our Democracy, especially our elections.

What is becoming painfully clear to me is that there are a number of Republicans in the Party that have so little faith in their ideas or just simple disdain for people that they have to resort to lying, paying people to lie, creating their own news, gerrymandering, tampering with elections, jamming phone banks on election day, and anything else a normal person would otherwise consider unethical. Why else would they continuously do such awful things to our Democracy? I don't think tethering the party to the radical fundamentalists has improved the party (another Rove idea).

7/12/2005 12:31 AM  
Blogger Miss Bliss said...

I think now would be a brilliant time for Republicans such as John McCaine to get their ounce of flesh. It's not surprising what he and his have been willing to do in the name of politics to Dems but what they have done to some of the finer people in their own party...well honestly I'd think those Republicans would be planning a bit of a roast right now, or at least they should.

7/12/2005 1:12 AM  
Blogger Miss Bliss said...

Oops...I didn't mean to imply that McCaine has done bad things to his own party members, I meant ROVE. Gah...late, must sleep.

7/12/2005 1:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With all what we have heard and learned from this administration and the republicans in congress, they have been using "reverse psychology" i.e say something that they would like the public to believe, but in fact do exactly the opposite. This is a masterful plan of deceit that it is time that they would be ashamed of.

I still have no hopes that any one whether Bush would admit or otherwise fire Rove or S.McClellan. These people are just too precious for him. The president would be lost without Rove guiding him in every step and every word he would take and say. Rove resigning or being fired is a wishful thinking at this point. Our only hope to save our nation from a catastrophe if this state of affair were to continue, is to elect a democratic majority in the house and the senate if it is possible, but the house would be very important, because then we would see some issues being taken seriously and redress the injustices that are being committed by this administration.
As usual Rove will find the way and the means to wiggle out of these doubts and accusations. He is the devil impersonator.

7/12/2005 4:12 AM  
Anonymous semper fubar said...

What do you suppose the political fallout would be if Bush simply pardoned Rove and anyone else who may be swept up in this?


The old man did this with Iran Contra and got away with it.

7/12/2005 8:04 AM  
Blogger TravisG said...

That's what I was wondering, semper. I think they'll try to ride this out a little while longer, to see how it plays out in the media. I'd imagine Rush, et al, are going to pee on the brushfire for a few days and hope a big story might blow this one off the front pages, or see if it's too complicated for much of the public to care about. Then, if it's been sufficiently spun, Bush will likely pardon him. O something.

But there's a lot of "if's" in that scenario, which is a position the Bush administration doesn't allow itself to get backed into very often. This could get ugly.

7/12/2005 8:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No one was more instrumental in getting Bush elected and re-elected as both governor of Texas and as president than Rove. Bush has been Rove's project for over twenty years. Going into election 2004 he was simply irreplaceable. Bush doesn't call him "The Architect" for nothing. For a quick refresher see;

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/architect/view/

There are no good options here. Either he knew about Rove's involvment and did nothing so he could work on the campaign (which I believe is likely) Or he remained willfully ignorant about his senior political advisor's treasonous behavior. Either way it stinks all the way to the top.

7/12/2005 9:16 AM  
Blogger KS said...

Rove was fired from Bush Sr.'s '92 campaign for leaking news stories to Novak. If ever there was a time for Bush Jr. should try to be a man like his father...

7/12/2005 9:24 AM  
Anonymous exclab said...

It would be very Rove-like to turn this on the press the way they did with the Bush/ military record memos. This could be a cook up..... "Come and get it."

I don't think Rove is the face of GW republicanism. I think that gets made up as we go along. I think Rove is just the sharpest knife in the drawer.

7/12/2005 11:12 AM  
Blogger owenz said...

The White House said Rove was not the leaker for two years. Rove was the leaker. Back in the Clinton years, that was called a lie. A big fat one, at that.

Remember when getting caught in a big fat lie carried a political price, even if a law wasn't broken? Those were the good old days.

7/12/2005 11:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"To do that press secretary job without being in over one's head one would have to be a fascist without a conscience."

YUP .... he could appoint Bernie Kerik!

7/12/2005 11:20 AM  
Blogger The Ignorant Investor said...

If Rumsfeld wasn't canned by now, why would Rove go anywhere? This is an administration that celebrates failure.

I'll be surprised if Rove doesn't get a freedom medal out of this.

7/12/2005 11:22 AM  
Anonymous patrick@zill.net said...

My only point: Plame was outed as a covert agent in the mid-1990s, probably by Aldrich Ames. She had been re-assigned into a non-covert role well before any of this happened. So the whole "Rove outed a secret agent" stuff isn't going to wash - she was doing HR duties during the time Rove was involved, which is not a covert role.

7/12/2005 11:34 AM  
Anonymous JWC said...

I don't believe Bush will get rid of Rove. For one thing, Rove knows way too much after all of these years of covering up. Bush will try to ride it out.

The whole thing makes me angry. We will see if our reporters and media have developed a spine. Personally, I think they are all afraid of Rove. I'm sure he controls by fear and there is no love lost. So if they think there is a possibility of taking him down, there might just be a feeding frenzy.

We shall see. No matter what happens the presidency has been shamed.

7/12/2005 11:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Confessed Iran-Contra Figure Lands Sensitive Pentagon Post:

"Robert Earl is now serving in one of the most coveted offices of the Pentagon as chief of staff to Gordon England, acting deputy secretary of Defense. In 1987 Earl admitted to a grand jury that he had destroyed and stolen national security documents while working for Lt. Col. Oliver North during the Iran-Contra scandal. He was never prosecuted. In his new position, Earl has clearance to review the kinds of classified documents he once destroyed. Several other key players in the Iran-Contra affair - including Elliott Abrams and John Poindexter - have played key roles in the current Bush administration."

Seems like Bush opted for all the crooks from the Iran Contra Scandal who stomped all over national security in the 80's. Doesn't exactly smell like an administration overflowing with integrity.

7/12/2005 11:53 AM  
Blogger TravisG said...

You got any supporting links for your claims, patrick@zill.net?

7/12/2005 11:55 AM  
Blogger David Studhalter said...

Legally, I gather, it will be very difficult to make a case against Rove, and probably anyone else, in this affair, as the bar is set so high to prove knowing disclosure of the identity of a covert agent. But TCR is dead-on here. We're not talking about technical evasions of criminal culpability. The behavior of Karl Rove is entirely indefensible and dishonorable. If Bush fails to fire him, that stain inevitably will transfer just a bit more discredit to Bush... who already has a great weight of the stuff adhering to him, as far as I'm concerned.

7/12/2005 11:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time Person of the Week:

"He (being Bush) did it because Karl Rove told him it was a good idea."

So we now know Bush is the puppet and Rove the "control freak" is the brains.

I was wondering what type of person is Karl Rove. Who is he? Does he have family, brother, sister, wife, kids? How about a mortgage? What were his parents like? Does he like to read fiction or play sports? Or is he just a loner reading political journals in the dark, 24x7. Shouldn't we know something about the man who is given so much credit for taking our country someplace, and who knows where that may be.

7/12/2005 12:27 PM  
Anonymous m osman said...

as crazy as it sounds, this whole thing will blow over. enough people don't care, they're too worried about the iraq war and economy. bush and co are right to bet on riding this out.

7/12/2005 12:45 PM  
Anonymous semper fubar said...

My only point: Plame was outed as a covert agent in the mid-1990s, probably by Aldrich Ames. She had been re-assigned into a non-covert role well before any of this happened. So the whole "Rove outed a secret agent" stuff isn't going to wash - she was doing HR duties during the time Rove was involved, which is not a covert role.

Pathetic, Patrick. Truly pathetic. Almost as pathetic as John Podhoretz claiming that no crime was committed because "everyone knew Wilson was married to Valerie Plame." (Well DUH! What no one knew was that she was a covert CIA agent.)

Ummm, Patrick? Don't ya think maybe the FIRST thing Fitzgerald did was to ascertain whether in fact a crime had been committed?

7/12/2005 1:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

in the unlikely event that Bush did not know until now that Rove was involved

It's actually entirely plausible that Bush did not know much here since it's common practice to specifically not reveal this type of information in order to be able to plead ignorance.

7/12/2005 1:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's betting that zero comes of this as per M.W. "Short of a criminal indictment, Rove will remain in place. For Bush to get rid of Rove would be like Charlie McCarthy firing Edgar Bergen."

http://www.bullmooseblog.com/2005/07/mccarthy-and-bergen.html

I mean really, when Republicans saw their chance to jump on WJC, they p0wned the Congress. Who is going to really press this now? I agree with CR thoughts and find their writings very, very insightful, but I've been infected by cynicism. Crap.

7/12/2005 1:51 PM  
Blogger owenz said...

Patrick is looking pretty hard for legal technicalities, huh? Well here's one right back at you: even if Plame was "outed" by Aldrich Ames, I'm sure the CIA never declassified her name for the public. After all, the law doesn't care if her identity was "common knowledge" in certain highly informed intelligence circles. It only cares if she meets the technical standard of being a "covert operative". Plame was indeed a covert operative, therefore the statute is in play.

Besides, Rove perjured himself in front of a grand jury. That should be enough to get him fired, right Patrick? And even if he didn't perjure himself, he was responsible for the leak. Didn't President Bush say the leaker would be fired?

Um, Patrick? Where did you go?

[Sound of crickets chirping...]

7/12/2005 2:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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7/12/2005 2:26 PM  
Blogger owenz said...

From the LA Times:

Luskin declined to say whether Rove knew that Plame was a covert agent, even if he did not know her name, which analysts said was a crucial factor in determining whether the law was broken.

Um, that's not good. For Karl, at least.

7/12/2005 4:10 PM  
Blogger Almighty Blog said...

Rove needs to go. Bush needs to go. And we need to get out of Iraq.

7/12/2005 4:26 PM  
Anonymous exclab said...

Osman:

I don't think it can blow over. The CIA will pursue the case and prosecute. The leak strikes at the heart of what they are supposed to be all about. They can not drop it without greater discredit to their institution.

7/12/2005 4:37 PM  
Anonymous patrick@zill.net said...

Dunno if my comment will come thru on a second try or not. The cite for the point I made, is NY Times, Oct 11, 2003, article by Nick Kristof.

7/12/2005 5:23 PM  
Blogger Chris Arndt said...

That's nuts. This moron blogger thinks the best time for the POTUS to fire a person is well before that person is proved to have committed a crime?

7/12/2005 6:40 PM  
Blogger uptowngbv said...

(chris arndt looks like your typical well-fed Bush/Rove apologist. Is that a Federalist Society pin on his lapel?)

Anyways, this might actually be the perfect time for McCain or Hagel to step up. Hagel's already taken steps to distance himself from this administration. Trashing Rove would seem to be a "slam dunk" at this point. Democrats probably don't have enough juice to keep this story going. But one of the flock turning on Bush's Brain could be a good story for a few weeks.

Think about it: If you were planning to run for the GOP spot in a couple of years, who would you want either on your side or out of the game entirely? Definitely Rove.

7/12/2005 7:42 PM  
Anonymous semper fubar said...

Gee Chris. You look like you're in your 20s or 30s. Did you know there was a recruiting shortage in our military, thanks to Bush's war of choice in Iraq?

You could really help out by enlisting. They could use a few good men.

7/12/2005 8:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI:

"RNC Chairman Ken Mehlman Statement on the Partisan Attack on Karl Rove":

http://releases.usnewswire.com/printing.asp?id=50217

"Paid for by the Republican National Committee. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate committee."

7/12/2005 9:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tim Russert on the Today Show said: "One Republican said to me last night. If this was a Democratic White House, we'd have Congressional hearings in a second."

So the Republicans have two ethics standard. And are Republicans okay with that? I mean it wasn't just 5 years ago that Republicans were so righteous, and now it doesn't matter?

I read today that it isn't only Wilson's wife that was outed but the "firm" where she worked.

I was raised where character mattered. And you were the worse scum, if you didn't treat people with respect. Yet Karl Rove is worshipped, people actually calling him a hero for outing a CIA agent; what kind of people are we. Karl Rove knows no-boundary; he peddles in character attacks with gossip, innuendo, and rumors to destroy anyone in his way. He has security clearance and sits in the Oval office unaccountable waiting to swat the next person he doesn't like.

I would think it would be very difficult to be Republican these days when you really have values and try to live up to them. I relate the Karl Rove Republicans to baseball players on steroids. Since they can't win on their own merits and skills, they cheat, shoot-up, snort. Bush once said that he couldn't disclose that he had taken drugs and drank because he wanted youngsters to look up to him as President. My goodness, there is still the matter of character, what type of person you are, how you treat others, how you live your life each day. I don't want my kids looking up to a liar and someone that would condone such activity, or take us to war on false pretense.

If you lie or promote gossip (all things good Christains would not like), is your victory really that sweet when in the end you have to look at the man or woman you have become.

Perhaps the Republicans should vote to modify the 10 Commandments while they are at it, to more suit their real moral character of Karl Rove, Tom Delay, Bill Frist, Randy "Duke" Cunningham, Jack Abramoff, Richard Perle, Cheney, etc., etc.

7/12/2005 11:34 PM  
Anonymous patrick@zill.net said...

Update: US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald has told Rove he is not a "target" of the investigation, though like anyone called to a grand jury, he is a "subject".

Interesting to see how this plays out, I think the Dems are being sucker-punched, again... if Bush is from the south, he certainly knows about the way to use a briar patch to his advantage.

7/13/2005 9:33 AM  
Anonymous Kilfarsnar said...

Except Bush isn't from the South. He's from Connecticut. The ranch is just a prop. But I agree, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Short of an indictment, I don't see Rove going anywhere. Or he could pull a Karen Hughes; leave the official position, but keep doing the job anyway.

7/13/2005 5:37 PM  
Anonymous exclab said...

If this is a sucker punch, they are waiting a long time for the dems and media commit themselves to the swing. Everyday they don't make a declaration of substance it looks worse and worse. Peekaboo is a game best played quickly. If he does go down, they will want to get it over with quickly. THe next election is coming up and the war is going to be an issue that will pull the reps down. They won't need Karl sinking to boat too.

Or perhaps they have correctly guessed that since the dems don't have a real platform of any kind, they can put up with any amount of flak from the press. They are the only party of the two that hasn't got "loser" written on thier forhead. Maybe they just don't care.

7/13/2005 10:50 PM  
Blogger Tayefeth said...

Fitzgerald is fairly well-known for not using "target" until he has enough evidence to convince a grand jury. The fact that Rove is currently a "subject" instead of a "target" doesn't mean his status can't change tomorrow.

7/14/2005 5:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chris - it is not just whether he committed a crime technically. Just because a crime as technially defined by the last may not have been broken does not mean that that this was moral or right. Parsing this as the GOP is doing doesn't change that fact that some government officialy outed a CIA agent and by extesion the cover company she operated under. If you were more mature and less hooked on the party line you would see that.

Perception is important.

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