Sunday, August 14, 2005

Upside-Down World

One of my favorite movies is the original Planet of the Apes. I suspect a lot of people these days feel like Taylor wandering the Forbidden Zone, searching for answers about how the world seemingly has turned upside down.

Over at the revealingly-named Powerline, General Aldo and the gorillas posted the following dispatch from one of their scouts:
I just returned from Crawford where I met some people from Israel yesterday as they fueled their motor home. They were there to drive out to the ranch as a tribute to President Bush and as an expression of gratitude for his support of Israel. I’ll be back down there Tuesday-Thursday and when I return I can e-mail some photos if you wish. This town of 800 is crawling with visitors who can be divided into four general categories—two good, two bad.

THE GOOD:
1) People on a pilgrimage to see President Bush’s ranch and “downtown” Crawford;
2) Police, more specifically, Secret Service, U.S. Marshals, Texas Rangers and County Sheriff’s Deputies;

THE BAD:
3) Protestors; and
4) Press covering the protestors only.

The good guys fill with gas and diesel and dine on cheeseburgers at the Coffee Station where the walls are adorned with enlarged snapshots of President Bush working the crowd and dining on a Coffee Station burger. That won’t happen this year, and perhaps never again because of the bad guys.

The bad guys hang at the Crawford Peace House, a dump of a house that looks like Hippie Central with dozens of cars, vans, SUVs and campers parked on the grass. Add portable toilets for ambience and you get the picture. This is the staging center for protests at the ranch nine miles up Prairie Chapel Road.
Everyone got that? The "good guys"---presumably solid, upstanding patriots---are now Israelis (perfect, eh?) and those on a pilgrimage (again, perfect) to pay tribute. The good guys are also the police. And the "bad guys"? Actual American citizens with the nerve to make a time-wasting nuisance of themselves by exercising their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights. The good guys "fill with gas and diesel" and dutifully stuff themselves with cheeseburgers while sitting in comfort under oversized photographs of the approving visage of our leader (remind you of anything?) while the bad guys endure the sun and the heat and the insects and the portable toilets to demand accountability from our elected officials. God forbid that holding our leaders to account might interfere with the patriotic duty to scarf cheeseburgers and top off the gas tank. And of course any description of the "bad guys" wouldn't be complete without including that other pillar of any democracy: the free press.

Consider yourself in good company if you feel the urgent need to fling open your window and shout this speakers-on, uniquely Ape City version of "we're not in Kansas anymore."

56 Comments:

Blogger Speechless said...

Yes, ir's an age old game. So long as the people are divided, polarized to the degree you describe here, the leaders need not worry, in our distrust for each other, we will police and attack each other and leave the politicians free to run their games.

Divide and conquer. So long as Americans are putting ideaology before the principles which unite us, we will continue to be the pawns in the games of the overlords.

Thanks for saying it like it is!

8/14/2005 6:15 AM  
Blogger Tayefeth said...

How long, do you think, before referring to Dubya as anything but "Dear Leader" is criminalized in some form?

8/14/2005 7:53 AM  
Blogger Jim said...

TCR, like you I liken the administration and it's followers's selective deafness to opposing views to a literary effort, but not "Planet of the Apes". I see it more as a modern version of Hans Christian Anderson's "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Bush thinks he's dressed in the regal armor of a conquering Commander-in-Chief. His tailoring firm, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, Delay, Hastert, Frisk, Fox, NY Post, Powerline, et. al., have, for three years, been pumping him up about how splendid he looks in the military garb they've designed for him, and how it shines so brightly his loyal subjects are so enthralled by the vision of him that they will follow him to the gates of hell and back (or even Iraq).

But, all during those years a few lonely voices have been wondering what the fuss is about; they don't see the invincible suit of armor. Instead, they see a falsely cocky, easily led, middle-aged, failed businessman who believes repeating a lie is the same as telling the truth. To these lonely few, the president stands naked before the real truth.

And, as time goes by, the few lonely voices are joined by others who begin to see as they do: A phony who believes that telling people he's wearing armor is enough to cover his nakedness. As they join their voices to the few, others also begin to see, as though scales had fallen from their eyes.

Then, along comes Cindy Sheehan, mother of a fallen soldier to give focus to the voices. And, no matter how loudly Bush and his tailors shout about his shiny suit of armor, the people look at him and his cohorts with ever-increasing disgust.

So, is this a madhouse, as Taylor contends? I think not. It's the way the world has worked since apes came down from the trees and shared caves, and two of them tried to influence the others.

8/14/2005 9:03 AM  
Blogger Mark Jones said...

The truly scary part about the Powerline post, is the following: "People on a pilgrimage to see President Bush’s ranch...."
According to Webster's Dictionary, pilgrimage is defined as:
1 : a journey of a pilgrim; especially to a shrine or a sacred place
2 : the course of life on earth

Wow, I guess the Bush admin. has finally achieved success in transforming the war in
Iraq from WMD/national security to a religious crusade. The circle is now complete. I have always thought of myself as a big picture person, able to connect all the dots and see things as they really are. Until now, however, I think that I may have been, at least partially blinded by my residual republican bias. As I finally start to connect the dots of just the last few weeks, i.e. Intelligent design theory, demonizing of Cathy Sheehan, recess appt. of Bolton, V. Plame leak investigation, Highway/Energy Bill passage, etc, etc, etc, it really is clear that this Bush administration is becoming (is already) a complete unmitigated disaster. How did we get to this point? And I haven’t even brought up the issues of oil going over $70/bbl($80…$90????), or what happens if the Chinese stop buying our Treasury notes ( and floating our housing market, in the process). It will take a lot more than a pilgrimage to the holy city of Crawford, TX, to overcome all of this.

8/14/2005 10:07 AM  
Blogger Terrible said...

Porta-potties are bad because the bushites on pilgrimage don't need them because they're too busy shitting on the Constitution!

8/14/2005 10:09 AM  
Blogger Nicholas said...

Good Lord! It's ironic in a sense I suppose...

8/14/2005 10:18 AM  
Blogger Roy said...

It does feel like Planet of the Apes in many ways.

1. To call a visit to the ranch a pilgrimage??????(scary)

2. Hearing all of these maniacal rants by democrats claiming dissent is becoming criminal in this country when every other word out of there mouth is War Crime.

3. Pretending that a grieving mother is some sort of political genius whose opinion we cannot disagree with under threat of smearing her.

4. Pretending that this grieving mothers views are somehow more legitimate than any other Americans.

5. The implication that agreeing with the president equals an inablility to reason.

I am so sick of hearing I am being brainwashed by the president because I believe that a more connected Iraq makes the world safer or that people who agree with him are in some sick power grab conspiracy.

8/14/2005 10:46 AM  
Anonymous JWC said...

Reading the comments today answers my questions as to whether conservatives read CR. Two of note - Mark Jones, good to see you have not lost your ability to reason and think things through. And then there is Roy, surprised to see you here reading the Realist.

CR, again, a thoughtful post. That is why I keep coming here.

8/14/2005 12:57 PM  
Anonymous mr. hedley bowes said...

the powerline account seems antithetical to the christian values many of their readers would profess. what does that make them, then?

8/14/2005 1:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very intelligent; very honest. Wow! Refreshing. A bright light in this Fog of War.

I feel the terrorists already have won in one way, when Bush and his administration took us to war in Iraq on a lie, dropped the ball on Bin Laden and the guys that actually did 9/11, manipulated intelligence, hampered the investigation of 9/11, attacked/smeared dissent, and they continue to lie, spread gossip and innuendos. They are feeding off of an artificial divide they have created in our country, enhanced by a radical right, lazy, or profits-only media.

America is great, but those that lead today or in the position to lead are less so.

I once asked a director about a particular person giving a very poor presentation; he was suppose to be a model of what the organization stood for. The director's response was, "cream doesn't always rise to the top." I often think of that when I see Bush.

IS Bush a Conservative?

I think not; the Republican party must have been very weak and thus was a prime candidate for the takeover by a radical group of organizations. If Bush is a Conservative, than Britney Spears is a MIT graduate genius.

My movie pick is: "Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"

8/14/2005 2:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Nation put it well - It is nurturing an ethos of fear as a civic virtue. (they actually were talking about the alert system and how many times they could scare the *hit out of us as a means of control)

Maybe we should add Republicans are nurturing smear campaigns and personal attacks as a civic virtue.

It is one thing to protest yourself, but when you smear from a distance it is really pathetic. And, when the news media takes sides, it is really a sad day for our Democracy.

Shouldn't we be setting a positive example for the rest of the world on how Democracy can work?

Or would that be too much work, and it is easier to use other people's kids as bomb fodder. It is so much more fun and there is so much more money involved; not for the bomb fodder families but for war corporations. Did you read they are outsourcing private war contractors now. A US company recruited mercenaries from Ecuador, Columbia for fighting in Iraq. They cost less. They are alreay use to years of guerilla combat.

What I want is Peace for the world, but why doesn't this President ever talk about Peace? Those that support terrorism should be brought to justice, no doubt. But I want the President to work on methods to achieve Peace in non-violent ways. This requires great intelligence and strength.

8/14/2005 3:07 PM  
Blogger Mark Jones said...

Roy Bettencourt:

What "maniacal rants" are you referring too? The only "maniacal" comments I have heard(read) are coming from the "pilgrimage" folks, i.e. Powerline.com and restate.org. BTW, I was quoting from a post on powerline.com, when I wrote "People on a pilgrimage to see President Bush’s ranch...." And, yes, many reasonable and rational people would consider that statement a little strange, if not scary. Also, who is "Pretending that a grieving mother is some sort of political genius"? I haven't heard or read that anywhere. In fact, the few words I have heard from Cathy Sheehan seem to indicate that she is an emotionally distraught person; which is very understandable; at least it is to me. This doesn't make her a "genius" or more "legitimate" than anyone else. She is just a human being, expressing her grief.
In any event, whatever Mrs. Sheehan does or doesn't say, has no relevance to the issue of gross incompetence and prevarications of the Bush Admin., with regard to Iraq or any of the other issues I listed in my original post.

8/14/2005 3:18 PM  
Anonymous Jeremy said...

I heard a rumour that those people out there demanding accountability hate freedom... good for those Patriots at Powerline for revealing the communists amongst us... bring back Joe McCarthy... there was a fine American

8/14/2005 3:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

be fearfull and consume!
trust no-one who speaks against or questions DEAR LEADER.
yours is not to question why, yours is but to do and die...

8/14/2005 5:01 PM  
Anonymous thirdeye said...

Once again, the posters here have been duped. They think this has something to do with Bush, etc. Bush and America are merely pawns in the struggle between Israel and Islam. Have fun wasting your time worrying about the wrong thing.

8/14/2005 6:04 PM  
Blogger copy editor said...

Recommend you read this in the upcoming Time magazine.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1093747,00.html

Looks like Iran did better Iraq post-invasion planning than we did.

"The highest form of generalship is to attack an enemy's plans"

8/14/2005 6:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would be happy if someone could offer me proof that the Powerline post is a "gag" to bait those of us who feel no sorrow at the prospect that W might never again be seen working the crowd or dining on a cheese burger at the Coffee Station. I may not agree with all that Cindy Sheehan has to say, but she has the right to express her views. It baffles me how someone on one hand can attack Mrs. Shehan for traveling to Crawford to make a point to the president, while on the other implying admiration for Israelis who traveled to Crawford to give the president a message of their own. This cannot be taken seriously. A "pilgrimage" to the ranch of Dubya Bush? I mean really...

8/14/2005 8:53 PM  
Anonymous scott_api said...

Roy- Agreeing with the president does not make you brainwashed. Accepting, and not questioning any of the following does: Saddam was involved with 9/11, we found WMD in Iraq, "Mission Accomplished", "We turned that corner", I could go on, but I don't feel I need to. Cindy Shehan does not have any more moral authority than you or I, But then again, neither did Terri Schaivo. No-one at Fox or in the GOP seemed to mind when the right went ballistic over her, so why be all up in arms when the left goes ballistic over Cindy Shehan? You feel threatened? You are allowed to disagree with Cindy Shehan, nobody has a problem with that, but if you go all Bill O'rielly/Michelle Malkin on her, then you are smearing her. That is the issue. No-one said her views are more important that yours or mine, but why assume that her views LESS important than yours or mine?

8/14/2005 8:56 PM  
Blogger mjs said...

Unfortunately, the post from Powerline is authentic - the boys at Powerline don't do parody. They are serious.

8/14/2005 9:06 PM  
Blogger Otto Man said...

Wait a second... President Bush won't be able to make a photo-op visit to the diner this summer? Maybe never again?

The touchy-queery leftists can complain about how bad it is to lose your son in a war fought for lies, but not going to the diner ... well, that's the real tragedy.

8/14/2005 9:31 PM  
Blogger Roy said...

It was reported Cindy has said, (paraphrasing) the blogosphere is keeping America from becoming a fascist state, which is already controlled by one party, it was also reported she claimed if America were out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine terrorism would stop. And lastly she claimed that she should not have to pay taxes for 04 because her son died. These are maniacal rants that if spouted by an actor or artist would be discounted immediatly. But Cindy says this and she is a patriot. I say that is crap and I am smearing her? That is not intellectually honest. Her round the clock grieving conviently covered by the MSM hints of a personal view not the views of her son. It was sickening to see the religous right go ballestic over Terri and it is just as sick to see the left do this over Cindy.

8/14/2005 9:38 PM  
Anonymous George said...

Roy wrote: It was reported Cindy has said, (paraphrasing) the blogosphere is keeping America from becoming a fascist state, which is already controlled by one party,

Which of the above statements do you disagree with?

it was also reported she claimed if America were out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine terrorism would stop.

Admittedly a tad hyperbolic, but are you saying that those are not substantial drivers of Arab anger, garnering many recruits for terror tactics?

And lastly she claimed that she should not have to pay taxes for 04 because her son died. These are maniacal rants that if spouted by an actor or artist would be discounted immediatly.

Ok, this is probably an incorrect interpretation of the tax code, but not a "maniacal rant".

But Cindy says this and she is a patriot. I say that is crap and I am smearing her?

How many sons have you lost in Iraq?

Sorry, but even as a 31-year member of the GOP, I gotta stand with Cindy on this one.

-George

8/14/2005 11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roy Bettencourt is just fishing for his barely read blog....

8/14/2005 11:06 PM  
Blogger uptowngbv said...

Roy, you're exactly right. She's not a political genius. She rambles a bit and uses hyperbole in front of TV cameras. In fact, I doubt if she even has a workable plan to prevent future terrorist attacks, perfect cold fusion, or explain all them confusing evolution "theories" to the boys and girls of Kansas. Nope, probably not any kind of genius.

If she was smart she'd hurry up and get used to the fact that she and her family are no longer useful. Mothers with dead sons are just too much of a liability these days, what with all the hysterics and all. I say keep 'em all quiet. Don't show the coffins. Don't go to the funerals. Let your daughters Marie and Antoinette parade around in glossy fashion magazines while the ungrateful complain about the so-called "back door draft."

Roy, we should get together sometime and read passages from our favorite Ann Coulter books. Seen the new Bernie Goldberg? Man, that guy knows what's really wrong with this country.

8/14/2005 11:17 PM  
Anonymous gordo said...

Roy Bettencourt--

I read your first post and thought, "I don't agree with his perspective, but this is the first comment I've read in quite some time that supported the war without including a smear of Cindy Sheehan. Bravo."

Then I read your second comment, in which you call her maniacal and dismiss the very idea that she might be a patriot as "crap."

If you want to believe that 1,800 of our bravest had to be sacrificed for "a more connected Iraq", that's fine. We can debate that. I just don't understand why you have to smear a woman who's mourning her son in order to make your point.

8/15/2005 9:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, Mrs. Sheehan is indeed very blunt & provocative, but - then again - so are her 'opponents' like Bill O'Reilly or M. Malkin.


@ Roy

How do you to answer more moderate grievances like this one:


"I need to know why

Mother of soldier killed in Iraq explains her vigil outside President Bush's ranch

By CELESTE ZAPPALA

A week after my son, Sgt. Sherwood Baker, arrived in Baghdad last year, President Bush held court for journalists at the 60th annual Radio and Television Correspondents' Association dinner in Washington. Part of the show that night was to pretend to look for WMD under the lectern. There were staged pictures of Mr. Bush looking for them under the rug in the Oval Office. Everyone present got a great laugh.

With a crucial election looming last year, the President thought it politically prudent to simultaneously indulge in self-deprecating humor about not finding WMD while he kept American soldiers in the dangerous search for those weapons.

I talked to Sherwood shortly after the President's circus show. He wasn't finding anything funny about his mission in Iraq. Sherwood was knee deep in the real search for WMD. He was providing security for the Iraq Survey Group, which was still looking for those weapons well beyond the admission by David Kay that they didn't exist.

(...) Sher's death brings me on an unlikely journey to Crawford, Tex. I join Cindy Sheehan, who has established a camp here.

My family is gathering with me as we hold our own vigil. We believe that we finally deserve a meeting with the President, one that has been denied us for the last 16 months. (...)

We'd like to know what he finds noble about instigating and maintaining a war with a country that posed no threat to our country.

We'd like to know if he still finds humor in the fabrications that justified the war that killed my son. (...) I want to believe he has the capacity to talk to us like human beings without injecting his party-line rhetoric. [I] believe our vacationing President has the time to hear that truth."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/337010p-287873c.html

8/15/2005 10:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re "cream doesn't always rise to the top."
From the movie "Harper" with Paul Newman: "Only cream and bastards rise."
Ladies and gentelemen, the President of the United States.

8/15/2005 10:51 AM  
Blogger Roy said...

Hey I have tried to stay out of the fray because she had a son who died, just the same way I tried to ignore the Terri Schiavo story. Grieving families are allowed a certain amount of crazy ramblings. If I was trying to get someone to read my never read blog, then they would see I have done no stories on her out of respect. But a person can only take so much Schiavo or Sheehan before I lose it. If you think the blogosphere is keeping America from fascism then you either do not understand fascism or you are extremely paranoid. If you think the only reason that there is terrorism is because of Jews then you do not understand the problem the world faces. Islamic radicals love to attack India (assuming unrelated to Jews). If we pulled all the way out of the middle east and forced the jews to do the same it would not transform into some peaceful paradise to assume it would is to be maniacal. I am not a Bush apologist, he has made many mistakes with Iraq and I vote for him only because I am forced to choose between two chumps who do not represent the best our country has to offer.

8/15/2005 12:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ roy:

"Grieving families are allowed a certain amount of crazy ramblings."

Well, Mrs. Zappales declaration quoted above doesn't sound like 'crazy ramblings' to me.

As for Cindy Sheehan, she might be a bit over the top or naive, but for people like Bill O'Reilly, who would never think of putting his behind on the line, to smear her, or basically tell that she and her 'ilk' are 'one of the problems America faces', or the such, that's even more paranoid.


"But a person can only take so much Schiavo or Sheehan before I lose it."

Say it right: "YOU can only take so much..."

Cindy Sheehan was the first to publicly protest in Crawford, in the meantime other parents of fallen soldiers joined in.

And they won't go away any time soon.

So better address the issues, instead of further denying them.


" I am not a Bush apologist, he has made many mistakes with Iraq and I vote for him only because I am forced to (...)"

Nobody forced you. But don't you sometimes think you voted for the wrong 'chump'?

8/15/2005 3:13 PM  
Blogger Roy said...

Mrs. Zappales seems rational as did Sheehan in the beggining. If the only statements coming out were angry but rational I would have kept my big mouth shut. Alas it did not play out that way. Sheehan is the face of this protest not Zappales. And correct I misspoke errrr mistyped. I could only take so much of Schiavo and Sheehan. As for O'Reilly I will not take up his defense and since I do not watch him I cannot respond to anything he has said.

8/15/2005 3:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ roy:

"If the only statements coming out were angry but rational I would have kept my big mouth shut. Alas it did not play out that way."

Well, I've heard statements out of the mouth of the person responsible for this war, Mr. Bush:

"Bring 'em on!"

Angry but rational?

'Osama doesn't bother him that much...'

Angry? Rational?


@ thirdeye:

"Everywhere Jews go, they cause trouble. Rome, Spanish Inquisition, Germany, Palestine."

Yeah, right, Jews causing trouble - as usual - in Germany, for example.

Boy, you certainly have a distorted view of history & reality.

8/15/2005 4:51 PM  
Blogger Roy said...

Bush consistently opens his mush mouth and looks like an idiot and is called a Nazi, dictator, fascist, etc, for his troubles. Every time he opens his mouth he is ridiculed and sometimes rightfully so. I will repeat Bush is no hero of mine just the lesser of two idiots.

8/15/2005 5:17 PM  
Anonymous thirdeye said...

>>Yeah, right, Jews causing trouble - as usual - in Germany, for example.

Boy, you certainly have a distorted view of history & reality.<<

Your first sentence absolutely corroborates the perception. It's not whether Jews actually cause trouble that's at issue. It's the PERCEPTION they cause trouble that keeps coming up over and over again.

We're just a knife-edge away from it suiting everyone that our problems in the Middle East can go away at the Jews' expense. It can happen so fast your head will spin.

8/15/2005 6:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ roy:

So can you agree with the assumption that a 2-party system in not sufficient for 300,000,000 people / currently 120,000,000 voters?!

@ thirdeye:

"It's the PERCEPTION they cause trouble (...)"

This is generally called anti-semitism.

I found an interesting study on possible reasons for anti-semitism here:

http://aishbaltimore.com/zz/seminars/whythejews/index.htm

(btw. I'm a german non-believer & tax-paying, non-voting US resident)

8/15/2005 6:59 PM  
Blogger Roy said...

Can I agree the 2-party system is not sufficient for 300,000,0000 people? Uh YES! I am a non believing, pot smoking, pro-gay marriage, Neo-Con. I only voted for Bush because of Iraq. I would like to see 4 parties a liberal party, conservative party then the Dems and Reps could really occupy the middle. Sadly, I do not see this happening for quite some time.

8/15/2005 7:04 PM  
Anonymous thirdeye said...

Well, you can gaze at your navel all day about which came first, Jews or anti-Semitism, it doesn't matter. After Hitler, everyone tried to overcome anti-Semitism and now we have nearly 1 billion Muslims ready to annihilate Israel. So, practically, nothing has changed. Which is a very good reason to suspect that America is a hair-breath away from a strong wave of anti-Semitism as Joe Sixpack grows increasingly frustrated and desperately looks for a way out. What happened in Germany can happen here in a heart beat. Don't kid yourself.

8/15/2005 9:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ thirdeye:

Actually, it DOES matter. You seem to advocate this stance.

You should rather rally against anti-semitism than fall back in that scapegoat-scheme again.

Listen, I don't believe that 99% of regular, more or less secular, dayworking Muslims all over the globe couldn't care less about Israel.

But you are right in that even that would still leave 10mm more or less radical Muslims.

So, would you support 'annihilating' Israel to appease fundamentalist Islamists?


@ roy:

You don't seem to make sense.

You voted for Bush as the 'lesser of two evils', yet admit that the f*cked up things big time (not exactly your words).

Any changes of heart / reconsiderations, since you DO sound apologetic?!

8/16/2005 9:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

where's the other idiot?

i only see bush sending our military into illegal and trumped up wars.
i only see bush lying to get his way so he can be our "war president" and dismantle our constitution in the name of corporate interest and fascism all nicely wrapped in a flag and sanctified by the bible.

in my book, that makes the only idiot to worry about, the one that duped people like roy to vote for him.

welcome to bush's 'murika. have a nice stay.

8/16/2005 10:07 AM  
Anonymous thirdeye said...

I'm not advocating anything. I'm observing that through the course of history, Jews have repeatedly managed to piss off various unrelated groups with whom they come in contact. It is currently the Muslims because the last group they pissed off, the Germans, had to be beaten back and the Jews given a state away from Europe so the Germans (and others) wouldn't get worked up again.

Since 1948, Jews have been pissing off Muslims. The only reason your silent majority Muslim is subdued is because Israel beat them up a few times over the last 50 years. Honestly, I don't have a problem with them working out their issues on their own. For all I care, Israel could annihilate every Muslim on the planet to secure its future.

What's at issue to me is that we came to America to ESCAPE religious wars. Now we've been drug into this situation as an ally of Israel and I don't advocate that. The danger to me is that as Americans tire of this situation dragging on for years they will look for reasons to disengage and another round of mass anti-Semitism is a likely end to that means.

8/16/2005 10:12 AM  
Blogger Officious Pedant said...

Roy,

The problem is that we have been conditioned to believe that only the two "primary" have any hope of gaining an office. The other parties, and there are several, are marginalized due to their inability to generate support.

8/16/2005 1:05 PM  
Blogger Roy said...

Do I regret my vote, not a chance, As for me being duped, are so close minded that you think that anyone who does not agree with you politically must be brainwashed? I believe Kerry would pull out and that would be disastorous.

As for a third party winning it is because they do not have the money to reach the average voter. A vote for a third party is only a protest vote, not an actual chance of winning vote.

8/18/2005 12:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ roy:

I see why you belong to the Republicans:
'No, je ne regret rien' (pardon my french, E. Piaf)

- 'No, I regret nothing'

Mistakes? What mistakes?

And, no, *roy, YOU think that we think you're brainwashed. I never wrote that.
Maybe it's a self-fulfilling prophecy ;)


As for elections: Yes, it's all about money. Sad thing, but not god-given.

Wouldn't it be possible for a new, small party to form a coalition with on of the 2 big players to make a change, for starters?

8/18/2005 9:45 AM  
Blogger Roy said...

the one that duped people like roy to vote for him.


Maybe you never wrote that but some anonymous person did

8/22/2005 5:16 PM  
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