Thursday, November 17, 2005

Feedback Loop Of Death

From WaPo, via Andrew Sullivan:
"Setting a date would mean that the 221 soldiers I've lost this year, that their lives will have been lost in vain," said Army Maj. Gen. William Webster, whose 3rd Infantry Division is responsible for security in three-fourths of Iraq's capital.
No, no, no. As our casualties mount, this deceptively appealing meme threatens to gain acceptance through sheer repetition. Listen, "setting a date" may indeed be inadvisable for any number of reasons. But citing the sacrifice already made is specious and perverse, and it betrays a mindless, bankrupt strategy that has morphed into a feedback loop of never-ending death. Those who argue against a timetable in Iraq based on past losses are themselves ignoring the sacrifice of almost 60,000 troops in Vietnam, where we learned the danger of the "we must honor the sacrifice already made" circularity. Don't we owe more to the memory of those troops and to our men and women currently in uniform? For those who would say no, please explain this: our military involvement in Somalia defined "cut and run." Does that somehow diminish the service or the sacrifice of those who fought and died in the alleys of Mogadishu? Aren't they---the "Blackhawk Down" boys---among the most celebrated of heroes in our military history? Sacrifice stands on its own. Neither its validity nor its honor depends on continued losses.

This is a time to think, analyze, criticize and---yes, when necessary---doubt. It is not a time to reach reflexively for the same type of shallow, blind-faith, false-populist mantras that got us into this mess in the first place. If we continue to do so, we guarantee that as time goes by many more such mantras will become necessary.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is it that the current crop of GOP like timetables and other performance measures for NCLB among other things but not with regards to Iraq? I know they aren't the same thing but it seems to me that they both require some sort of measure of progress. Heck I would think that with Iraq it is even more important since we are talking life and death of American soldiers, Iraqi's, and American prestiege.

11/17/2005 8:50 AM  
Blogger Spider said...

TCR, when you write about this topic I can not agree with you more. There are other reasons they can give, but "honoring the sacrifice" is the biggest piece of bs logic out there.

Thank the stars my sister comes home in 21 days!

11/17/2005 9:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lets face it, since this war was an oil grab clothed with a lie upon a lie every one of the dead and insured soldiers was sacrificed, as no value was placed on them by this White House.

All we are doing is increasing the number of this sacrifice. There is no honor in this war and topped by the illegal use of torture and chemical warfare we stand exposed to the world as Stalin's successors.

What a very sad state of affairs we have arrived at. Will this administration ever pay for its war crime - NO, SUPERPOWERS DO NOT HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO INTERNATIONAL LAWS, THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY DAMM PLEASE.

11/17/2005 10:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is always good to come to this blog and hear a voice of reason. I wished there was a way for all the commenters to take a collective deep breath and realize these are weighty issues that require serious thought and not just flippant comments. As a retired military officer I believe to ever say that a soldier doing his duty that he was called to do has sacrificed for nothing is just wrong. He or she died doing what he was asked to do and I will always honor their sacrifice. But if I hesitate to evaluate a policy and changed that policy ( if that is the right thing to do) and get others killed in no way honors anyone!

11/17/2005 11:12 AM  
Blogger copy editor said...

Wait, wait, wait... Uh. We should... Redeploy in Vietnam to, uh, honor... their sacrifice? Yes!

11/17/2005 11:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" these are weighty issues that require serious thought"

It's like getting married and then getting divorced. If you give little thought and have no plan for the first, you are bound to experience the 2nd and it's almost guaranteed that it will be a bloody mess - emotionally and financially.
In between the 2, everyone is miserable.

11/17/2005 12:33 PM  
Anonymous thirdeye said...

Now starts the trouble. Leaving Iraq means giving up Israel and the Jews won't allow that. What will Joe Sixpack do?

11/17/2005 1:33 PM  
Anonymous David said...

Thoughtful post. I'm a former military officer, and I have a similar perspective on the topic.

During my cadet years I remember an instructor telling the class that the function of the military is to kill people and break things. That's blunt, but it underlines the fact that force should be used with much thougthful discretion (absent here), so that when used, it can be applied without reservation to achieve a material goal.

The military function of government is just not well-suited to "winning hearts and minds"-even as I know that each soldier does wish to do so, it doesn't matter. For example, a great article in the WSJ this week highlighted just how much is lacking in the thoughtful part of this operation. The article highlighted an obviously very talented Foreign Area Officer's work in Iraq. Local Iraqi mayors even referred to him as a "good friend." The local Embassy's and State Department's plans for him and his unit: leaving Iraq, leaving no Middle East expert in the local area, including its embassy. Winning hearts and minds? This brilliant, dedicated guy was making progress, so with what now?

These guys deserve better.

11/17/2005 5:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agree with TCR and previous poster. We need to discard these cliches, put our thinking caps on, and get real.

11/17/2005 7:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thirdeye says: Now starts the trouble. Leaving Iraq means giving up Israel and the Jews won't allow that. What will Joe Sixpack do?
Thirdeye, have you been listening to Helter Skelter played backwards again? I'm not even sure I get your point here- If it's that the neocon cabal that got us into this mess are a bunch of hardcore zionists, well, sure, but that don't prove nuthin. I'm sure they had the best interests of America at heart.

11/17/2005 11:21 PM  
Blogger Ahistoricality said...

When we switch from a results and justice oriented society to an honor and "sunken costs fallacy" society, we are lost. Truly lost.

11/18/2005 2:18 AM  
Anonymous Fort said...

OLA.... Like the blog, looks are pretty common however. Maybe you can take a look at my blog here:
Let me know what you think.

1/31/2006 3:54 AM  
Anonymous Rick J said...

I have been following a site now for almost 2 years and I have found it to be both reliable and profitable. They post daily and their stock trades have been beating
the indexes easily.

Take a look at


3/29/2006 7:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is the best work, which I ever ve seen Everything is so harmonious, that even such aggressive critic as I would not be desirable to change anything!
- g
07 car civic honda
buy used car
car undefined used
used car bergen
used car oakland
used car greensboro
used car raleigh
used car killeen
used car vallejo
used car tacoma

12/30/2006 3:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been looking for sites like this for a long time. Thank you! »

4/24/2007 2:08 PM  
Anonymous Buy Levitra said...

Great article! Thanks.

8/18/2007 2:17 PM  
Anonymous Phentermine said...

Thanks for interesting article.

8/18/2007 8:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonimous said...

Excellent website. Good work. Very useful. I will bookmark!

9/10/2007 11:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get [url=]ashwagandha online[/url] here - Patent Chance flovent aerosol online now - Grandiose Offer

2/02/2010 4:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pharmacy World delivery [url=]Buy Ultram Online[/url] Buy Brand Viagra Online Drug Side-effects [url=]Buy Augmentin Online[/url] Buy Brand Cialis Online
No prescription Pharmacy [url=]Buy Ultram Online[/url] Buy Phentermine Online

2/16/2010 3:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

25mg World shipping [url=]Buy Viagra Soft Online[/url] Buy Prilosec Online Order No prescription [url=]Buy Penisol Online[/url] Buy Augmentin Online
Order World delivery [url=]Buy Xanax Online[/url] Buy Ativan Online

2/19/2010 5:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

25mg Get [url=]Buy Valium Online[/url] Buy Cialis Super Active Online Buy Drug [url=]Buy Tadacip Online[/url] Buy Differin Online
10mg Now [url=]Buy Zoloft Online[/url] Buy Ultram Online

2/20/2010 7:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10mg Order [url=]Buy Ativan Online[/url] Buy Lipitor Online Online Now [url=]Buy Cialis Online[/url] Buy Sleepwell Herbal Xanax Online
No prescription 25mg [url=]Buy Doxycycline Online[/url] Buy Cialis Super Active Online

2/24/2010 10:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

25mg Sale [url=]Buy Phentermine Online[/url] Buy Prilosec Online World shipping Buy [url=]Buy Cialis Super Active Online[/url] Buy Brand Viagra Online
10mg Cheap [url=]Buy Brand Viagra Online[/url] Buy Xanax Online

2/25/2010 10:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Discount Sale [url=]Buy Cialis Professional Online[/url] Buy Flagyl Online Online Online [url=]Buy Cialis Super Active Online[/url] Buy Differin Online
Low price Low price [url=]Buy Cialis Soft Online[/url] Buy Viagra Professional Online

2/26/2010 9:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sLUyuF tizanidine order tcBAFX xanax order aCRvkI aldactone sale SbGgcG ceclor buy eMfWPp acomplia without prescription cEKFDS antabuse world delivery zzsvAp levitra discount

3/02/2010 6:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JUvNma relafen now TFVflB penegra cheap TgZwfU acticin cheap tPkImV vermox rx CEymKy vasotec free pills bXlpxs lasix no prescription uyXwUM himcolin 50mg

3/03/2010 2:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jJVOCN rulide 50mg PpCfjK proscar online BZFXox zyban 50mg xnJFOh shallaki sale LAKHpm cloud nine bigprx 10mg xTdvRc lukol get jhDcsU speman low price

3/04/2010 1:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

QHYqkG amoxil ed irdiBl lariam generic Lxibkg ibuprofen cheap OmOnQd lopid sale gFhOte calcium carbonate rx KMrRdv pepcid ed XQCyxQ kerlone visa/mastercard/amex/echeck

3/04/2010 4:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ekdlVd cozaar visa/mastercard/amex/echeck GsNAkl lopid 10mg BQPPYj calcium carbonate low price QHkqrd cardizem order jvlQSi himplasia drug vMjVIV ampicillin world shipping lOcVNS norplant pharmacy

3/05/2010 1:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

where to buy xanax online no prescription xanax and alcohol and memory loss - xanax dosage by mg

11/16/2012 8:19 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home