Oath Keepers
I checked out their website. Here are their declarations:
Histrionics aside, some pretty agreeable stuff, especially #2 and #3. I wondered what their position has been during the past few years on warrantless wiretapping and the Padilla and Hamdi cases. I didn't find that anywhere on their website. Nor did I see any information about the group's history. I had to read the Wikipedia entry to learn that the group "formed in March 2009." That cleared everything up.
1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people. |
Histrionics aside, some pretty agreeable stuff, especially #2 and #3. I wondered what their position has been during the past few years on warrantless wiretapping and the Padilla and Hamdi cases. I didn't find that anywhere on their website. Nor did I see any information about the group's history. I had to read the Wikipedia entry to learn that the group "formed in March 2009." That cleared everything up.
posted by The Cunning Realist at Wednesday, October 21, 2009
21 Comments:
Cleared up quite a bit, didn't it?
- Whammer
The inherent double standard is glaring for #4 thru #9 as we occupy foreign lands, detain foreigners (and domestics as well), and infringe upon basic human and property rights around the globe.
Tony, where does it say anything about foreign lands? I'd say these people do not agree with the abuses you describe. I don't see a double standard
"10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances."
Which is why the right exploded with anger when the police in Pittsburgh beat the crap out of everything that moved during the G-20 summit.
Do they have an "except people we regard as hippies" clause in there somewhere?
Technically they formed at 12:01 PM on January 20 but it took until March for them to find a notary public that would work with documents made out in crayon.
Dave S: heh!
Pete, that's the point: it says nothing about foreign lands. The Oath Keepers recruits only from military personnel and law enforcement, and while I have no quarrel with their concern for the US Constitution on domestic issues, I cannot help but recognize that they are silent on the clauses of the Constitution regarding our duty to deploy US military only in cases of national defense.
Where were they over the past eight years of lies about imminent dangers and illegal wars? Where are their protests now in regard to continued military action without a proper war declaration? Again, these are largely military personnel.
Which is why the right exploded with anger when the police in Pittsburgh beat the crap out of everything that moved during the G-20 summit.
I was just thinking that if there had been just one cop there that refused to take action against non-violent protesters because he was an Oath Keeper, and if he was disciplined for it, it could get some media coverage and maybe be a catalyst for something positive. I'd be a lot more impressed with these guys if they were more focused on the militaristic and overreaching police culture we already have than on what might happen. Stuff like the G20 is pretty good evidence that our law enforcement doesn't much respect the constitution now.
We hear all the time about cops being suspended for abusing peoples rights. If a few cops were suspended for refusing to use force against protestors, or refusing to make questionable searches or arrests, it could be a good thing for police/civilian relations and have some real effect. If they aren't willing to stand up against everyday abuses of the constitution, then why should we believe they really will if things are much worse?
Not one myself but i know many. There are some law enforcement members who swear they will disobey illegal orders if it comes down to it...these are rural county sheriff deputies...some of them haven't been militarized yet. Most of the others are gun rights, ron paul or pat buchanon, type conservatives....there might be a few neocons mixed in who just hate Obama and the Dems but moat of these guys have lost faith in the feds and just want to try and keep the feds out of their communities. Funny...Actually I'm back in rural Ohio again and i met some of these people at the bar last night. We had some interesting discussions. These are not city people. These are rural folk...my type of people.
Goldhorder--
Interesting take. I live in a small town with a lot of rural folks where I work. I grew up on the Southside of Chicago-- as urban as you can get-- so I somewhat straddle both worlds.
This rural mentality, from my adult viewpoint, is mostly benign testosterone-induced saber rattling... kind of like a "don't f*&k with us" shot across the bow as a message to what they perceive as an urban president with "an agenda" to take away their guns.
I have not met one person (mostly white males, as am I) who has ever talked openly about violence; on the contrary, they harp on "responsible" gun ownership to a fault.
I think the whole thing is somewhat silly and I argue incessantly with them (in good nature) about the *priorities* of the govt. Sure, kick all the bums and crack queens off welfare, but I ask them to realize that wars-- especially illegal ones associated with long occupations-- are far far more expensive, both financially and diplomatically, although maybe invisible to us in our work-a-day lives.
If our police and military actually lived up to the letter of this document it would be a good thing. Other than the paranoia, there's nothing here the left woudn't embrace. Especially #9 which if taken literally means no more seizing property of suspected drug users. I hope the police begin living up to that.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan119.html
As I mentioned Pat understands these people
Pat Buchanan offers a pretty clear understanding of the reasons the Oath Keepers didn't say a word while Jose Padilla was held for five years without access to counsel and without charges:
"Jose."
"mostly benign testosterone-induced saber rattling."
I think Tony nails it. Their self esteem took a big hit in Nov. A smart black man was elected president. Something that is only possible because of the guilt the liberals felt. The government is not legitimate because the election was stolen from the rightful rulers. I believe they would be as affected if Hilary was elected. "I ain't gonna be told wut to do by no black man ( or white woman )." Just image the screaming that will take place the day a black woman is elected.
Even taken at face value, 4 and 5 scare the heck out of me. Neo-con in this context means Neo-Confederate.
LOL. Ah yes, Goldhorder... the gritty self-reliance of the noble rural savage. Never mind that most of these communities would not have had utilities, mail service or industry (from railroads and the interstate highway system) if not for a centralized government allocating resources.
Never mind that federal farm subsidies add support, Social Security brings revenue, Medicare entices doctors to serve in federally subsidized rural hospitals, and in general, rural folk enjoy a standard of living on par with their city and suburban brethren largely due to policies of a centralized government.
I have these discussions all the time, and even the staunchest god-fearin', gun totin' redneck will admit that things like the TVA, Rural Electrification, land grant universities, small market airports, and a whole myriad of such programs have enhanced their lives, nay, have them possible.
And if *they* won't admit it, then ask their interstate-strip-mall-shoppin' wives or their ipod-totin' kids.
You're a funny guy.
If you saw some of the comments the "Oathkeepers" leave on other blogs, you wouldn't consider them with such esteem.
It's all about the definitions. I think here, it's safe to say that "the American people" is defined as "the Right Kind of American People". It's like Pterodactyl - the p is silent.
Oath Keepers should be called "gate keepers" and this group has decided to take them HEAD ON at http://www.realoathkeepers.org
REAL Oath Keepers gladly expose the REAL enemy of our people. REAL OK gladly exposes the fact that Rhodes and his crew do nothing more than phish for info on dissidents. They REFUSE to tell you the REAL story.
They OPENLY support the ENEMY that ROK website EXPOSES. They advertise for the enemy right on their website, and they fill their "news" with ENEMY propaganda.
Go to ROK website today and find out who, what, and why. This group of "gate keepers" are GOING DOWN.
I think it is a great idea that they are not goint to interfere with the right of expressing our ideas freely.
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