Personal Intelligence Agency Alert
The link to the explanation of the PIA alert is here. This one gives me no pleasure, as Andrew Sullivan has long been one of my daily reads. But intellectual honesty compels us to be consistent. Andrew triggered the PIA alert today with this post that ended with a reference to Iran:
If we're to say we learned anything from the WMD debacle in Iraq, it's imperative that we avoid reaching the "truth" through repetition of unfounded and lazy speculation this time around.
Dabbling in Holocaust denial by a current government should be treated as a form of insanity or fascism, rather than as some kind of thing to be "understood". Those who are addicted to the narcotic of religious fanaticism do not need enabling or excuses. They need an intervention. Especially when they are on the verge of wielding nuclear weapons.We know the U.S. intelligence community's current estimate is that Iran is about a decade away from the ability to produce a nuclear weapon; read about that here. Thus, unless Andrew's definition of "on the verge" is a decade, he appears to have his own Personal Intelligence Agency, the information from which has caused him to reach a radically different conclusion than the vast and well-funded U.S. intelligence community that includes the CIA, DIA and NSA.
If we're to say we learned anything from the WMD debacle in Iraq, it's imperative that we avoid reaching the "truth" through repetition of unfounded and lazy speculation this time around.
33 Comments:
Good post TCR, especially considering that Andrew Sullivan made the same mistake about WMD's before the invasion of Iraq. A lot of people did, obviously, but the onus is on them to be more vigilant this time around.
Sullivan too frequently buys into distortions of truth which support some position he is fervent about. I remember how, on Bill Maher, he denounced Noam Chomsky as a Soviet apologist. Anyone who's read NC knows he puts together damning indictments and detailed information with a fine even-handedness. All nations and ideologies are fair game for him. I suspect Sullivan had not bothered to read NC for himself, and just bought wholesale the 'argumentum ad left-wing nutjob'.
Not to change the subject, but Sullivan looks like Thomas Paine in comparison to Cheney defending the wiretapping on the Newshour (PBS) this evening. I was screaming "LIAR" at the television. I called up a friend and he told me he was hoarse from yelling during Cheney's interview. Leher tried to nail him on the "insurgency is in its last throes" remark of 6 months ago, but evil Cheney just shifted his eyes and said history would prove him correct. He also helf forth on Iran (theme of point = fear).
Ugh, Awful.
Did anyone else see this? The lamest apologist ever! He must think Americans are dimwitted, memory-impaired dolts (which unfortunately, may not be too far out as witnessed by the results of their past propaganda campaigns).
The daily assault of this administration's MO is really freaking me out.
The Washington Post article is 6 months old so does that mean it's down to 9.5 years? ;) Sorry.
So if Iran proceeds with uranium enrichment, like they're threatening to do, will it really take 10 years to get there? That figure seems high to me. It didn't take the Manhattan Project that long to come up with fissionable material, granted they only had enough for 2 bombs. Are there any nuclear engineers out there to give us a reliable figure?
As for a "delivery vehicle", Iran should be able to buy one from China or North Korea, or ex-Soviets looking for some cash, with little difficulty.
While A.S. "on the verge" seems untrue, so does 10 years. Maybe I can find a link somewhere.
Duh...
You're all missing the logic of the situation.
For Iraq, we got almost all the intelligence wrong. The CIA was incompetent. There hasn't been enough time to address it and it's a matter of National Security.
Now comes Iran. The CIA says 'a decade away'. Those incompetents MUST be wrong, says the administration. We have to act now or mushroom clouds for everyone.
Funny how you can use your past blunders to justify your future plans.
I like Sully but I think on some issues he defers to much to the conventional wisdom as well as what he perceives as the "good intentions" of Bush (while acknowledging the incompetence). That old adage about the road to hell is definitely applicable.
Manhattan Project :
It took massive resources from the US economey to produce 2 bombs in about 5 years. The economy of IRAN is a lot smaller then the US economy was even then. It is not possible for them to put the kind of effort the US did in the Manhattan project. Thus it will take them longer to do. One must also remember that the assesets avaliable to them in terms of trained workers also less then what the US applied to the problem.
Dan
According to Faux News this morning, "More and more Americans" view Iran as a threat.
All the more reason to take back the Senate and start impeachment proceedings. We can't just consign our country to two years and 10 months of coporate rape and fundamentalist zealotry while we throw our hands into the air. Sometimes I think that a mushroom cloud is part of the plan.
Funny that article you linked to did not name one source and it said that previous estimates were five years away. This article was nothing definite, remember before the Iraq War many newspapers including the NYT said Saddam had weapons. Perhaps you should give yourself a PIA alert since you seem to know exaclty which unnamed sources are correct and which arent.
Hey Roy. Why don't you go out and track down the sources?
Point taken, and just this kind of snowballing repetition of unsupported statements of officials is what leads to fiascos like Iraq. But, leaving out the last, unsupported sentence of Sullivan's statement, and he makes important and valid points that should perhaps be given a bit more focus: the rhetoric coming out of Teheran in the last few days has indeed been truly alarming.
I fear that we have a situation where the world community and Iran are both painting themselves into a corner, when there really should be both time and opportunity to figure out how to solve these problems peacefully.
Yes, but have you scanned all the rhetoric coming out of IRAN? Do you speak Arabic or are you relying on the translation of someone else. Would you condone the invasion of the US for the stupid things Pat Robertson says? George Bush? Dick Cheney?
The reason IRAN talks a big game about nucleur weapons is that they are trying to avoid the US attacking them and trying to rally the rest of the muslims to attack the US if they do invade/bomb them.
It's really all they have left knowing how the Americans handled the Iraq thing. They see the writing on the wall.
Roy,
Chalabi + Judy Miller = pre-war NYT claim of WMD
'If we're to say we learned anything from the WMD debacle in Iraq, it's imperative that we avoid reaching the "truth" through repetition of unfounded and lazy speculation this time around.'
When the strange and unbelievable become true.
Certainly the last 6 years, but even the last 14 years have been escalating a strangeness in our country. How many of these are true now:
Top 10 'Conspiracy Theories' about George W. Bush:
Part 1
Part 2
Regarding the cartoon, 60 Minutes did a story last year on the Danish filmaker that was killed for doing a movie on Islam and women. He had worked with a Danish woman politician I believe, who was Islamic. He pleaded with his killer, saying can't we talk about this, but was brutally murdered, in daylight, on the streets.
Here's a link
I was wondering if the trial of the Islamic man was coming up, and there is probably a lot of tension between all sides because of the brutal murder.
Try an organization like NTI to get the facts on Iran. I'm going to be a strict realist. I don't trust this administration or anyone that uses their talking points. The trend is there: too many lies, too much secrecy, too much propaganda and manipulation, and not enough transparency. If you are trying so hard to hide something, then there must be something there that you know is wrong.
The Manhattan Project cost $20 billion (in 2004 dollars).
Since it's been reported that Iran already has several nuclear facilities located throughout the country, they've already begun. I don't know how far along they are, but it's not as if they're reinventing the wheel so to speak. They don't need to spend the R&D dollars, the US already did that decades ago. What they had to come up with was the start up capital (which they get from selling oil) for construction and get nuclear engineers to come in and show them how it's done (which they reportedly got from Russia).
While I haven't been able to find a time table for enrichment, the centrifuge method (which Iran allegedly has) requires anywhere from 10 to 20 stages and the energy requirements are reasonable.
Still, we don't know how they came up with the 10 year figure. Enrichment, in and of itself, does not take that long. Construction can.
These were helpful: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project
www.uic.com.au/nip33.htm
Oh, and please don't confuse what I'm writing with supporting W at all. I don't. I'm just trying to figure out how these estimates of Iran's nuclear weapon capability came about.
Anon-
The murdered filmmaker -- Theo van Gogh -- was Dutch, not Danish.
Shot down in the streets of Amsterdam.
so funny, PIA
in this age of no-facts-just-beliefs, it seems we all get to have our own PIA.
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A typical dictionary definition of hypnosis states that it is: a state that resembles sleep but that is induced by suggestion. However, anyone who has tried hypnosis (and any self respecting hypnotist) will tell you that this is a very simplistic view of the subject!
A much better description comes from the Free Online Dictionary which states that hypnosis is: an artificially induced state of consciousness, characterised by heightened suggestibility and receptivity to direction. So what does this mean and how can it be used to your advantage?
Well, the subject of hypnosis has been discussed and pondered since the late 1700s. Many explanations and theories have come and gone though science, however, has yet to supply a valid and well-established definition of how it actually happens. It's fairly unlikely that the scientific community will arrive at a definitive explanation for hypnosis in the near future either, as the untapped resources of our 'mostly' uncharted mind still remain something of a mystery.
However, the general characteristics of hypnosis are well documented. It is a trance state characterized by extreme suggestibility, deep relaxation and heightened imaginative functioning. It's not really like sleep at all, because the subject is alert the whole time. It is most often compared to daydreaming, or the feeling you get when you watch a movie or read a captivating book. You are fully conscious, but you tune out most of the outside world. Your focus is concentrated intensely on the mental processes you are experiencing - if movies didn't provide such disassociation with everyday life and put a person in a very receptive state then they would not be as popular (nor would TV advertising be as effective!). Have you ever stated that a film wasn't great because you just couldn't 'get into it'???
This works very simply; while daydream or watching a movie, an imaginary world becomes almost real to you because it fully engages your emotional responses. Such mental pursuits will on most occasions cause real emotional responses such as fear, sadness or happiness (have you ever cried at a sad movie, felt excited by a future event not yet taken place or shivered at the thought of your worst fear?).
It is widely accepted that these states are all forms of self-hypnosis. If you take this view you can easily see that you go into and out of mild hypnotic states on a daily basis - when driving home from work, washing the dishes, or even listening to a boring conversation. Although these situations produce a mental state that is very receptive to suggestion the most powerful time for self-change occurs in the trance state brought on by intentional relaxation and focusing exercises. This deep hypnosis is often compared to the relaxed mental state between wakefulness and sleep.
In this mental state, people feel uninhibited and relaxed and they release all worries and doubts that normally occupy their mind. A similar experience occurs while you are daydreaming or watching the TV. You become so involved in the onscreen antics
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