Thursday, January 05, 2006

Upright Domino

For more than a decade and while 58,226 troops died, Americans listened to their political and military leaders insist that Vietnam was crucial to the security of the U.S. Year after year, the mantra was that if we "cut and ran" Vietnam would fall like a "domino" and become a springboard for the Communist domination of all of Southeast Asia and eventually Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

Here's just the latest update on how things are going there after we cut and ran.

With rare but admittedly important exceptions, ideals like democracy and capitalism tend to emerge on their own over time. Since those ideals are superior, that's only natural, right? How much sooner---and with how much less pain on both sides---would Vietnam's current progress have happened if we had confidence in the ability of our own ideals to triumph over those we believed to be inferior, and thus hadn't destroyed the country in order to save it?

104 Comments:

Blogger John @ Ariel said...

Excellent question, but one that war supporters sadly are not likely to ponder.

1/05/2006 8:51 PM  
Blogger dus7 said...

Well, CR, we need a catchy meme to wind up (down) this Iraq debacle and/or one for getting our own country back on track. Quagmire is not uplifting, fascist lacks optimism. Hmm.

1/05/2006 9:46 PM  
Blogger mjs said...

But, freedoms on the march in Iraq (at the point of a gun).

1/05/2006 10:13 PM  
Anonymous LarryInNYC said...

Ho Chi Minh's original manifesto for Vietnam drew heavily on the Declaration of Independence. In large part, Vietnam's move to Stalinist-style communism was forced by their inability to find any support in the democratic west for their independence.

1/05/2006 11:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But TCR, if it weren't for for those pinko subversives like Jane Fonda and John Kerry, we'd have won the war in Viet Nam. By now it might have had a hundred chip fabs!

1/05/2006 11:45 PM  
Blogger zen said...

The die is cast. Bush has crossed the Rubicon.

It is astonishing that while wrapping up in the flag and sounding the trumpets of superiority, the suspicion, aggression and desire to control all, betrays the confidence that 'our' way is better.
Do we love the US because it is right and just, or simply because it's ours?

1/06/2006 12:28 PM  
Anonymous dave m said...

Ror a long time I've believed that democracy and market based economic systems are things that a society has to grow into. They can't be imposed. You have to develop a version or either that your country can live with.

1/06/2006 2:43 PM  
Blogger David Studhalter said...

>>Anonymous said...
But TCR, if it weren't for for those pinko subversives like Jane Fonda and John Kerry, we'd have won the war in Viet Nam. By now it might have had a hundred chip fabs!

...
I can't tell if the above comment is meant to be taken seriously, but if it is, it's very close to sheer idiocy. Does anyone really believe that with what, a million troops, a hundred thousand Americans and a million Vietnamese dead, we'd have "won" the war, and the outcome would have been "worth it?" If they do, behold the face of evil, for such values are not the founding values of our nation, and are more akin to those of our historical enemies.

If it was a joke, it's a little obscure.

1/06/2006 2:56 PM  
Anonymous kindness said...

My sarcasm meter must be going out again. I can't say whether anonymous above was serious or not.

TCR, you are better than I at bringing the historical implications of a current newsworthy items into perspective. Sure, we & the french could have served Asia better post WWII. But neither China nor indochina was then industrialized, and the Marshall Plan was really meant for industrialized nations.

I'm glad the Vietnamese are getting the opportunity to make money.

I only wish Intel would still find it profitable to put chip plants here in CA again. Of coures, that's a whole 'nother issue.

1/06/2006 3:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was Condi who said not too long ago they were willing to "sacrifice stability" in the short-term for long-term goals. Ah, if life were a textbook. The problem, we have seen over 5 years now, how these folks operate - corruption, incompetency, partisan hiring, and a reality full of holes and lies.

And we should note, the war is now estimated to cost between $1 to $2 trillion.

PS: Did you hear that the former head of Mine, Safety and Health Administration was another Mike Brown-type minion who resigned in turmoil.

1/06/2006 5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you have seen it, I highly recommend, The Fog of War - Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara". He was the Don Rumsfeld of the Vietnam war, only he had a conscience and could reflect with honesty his mistakes.

1/06/2006 5:34 PM  
Blogger Roy said...

Any attempt to equate Iraq with Vietnam is foolish. Two glaring differences: 1. North Vietnam had an established government and leader in Ho Chi Minh. Iraq has no equivelant, Zarqawi is not attempting to instill a government but rather make sure any attempt at a democratic government fails! Huge difference!
2. There is no super power funding the Iraqi insurgency like the Soviet Union was funding the Vietnamese.
Attempts to gloss over these differences are desperate at best.

1/06/2006 5:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roy Bettencourt: Any attempt to equate Iraq with Vietnam is foolish.

Roy, you forgot 3) The SAND! and the CAMELS!!

kindness: My sarcasm meter must be going out again. I can't say whether anonymous above was serious or not.

Isn't it sad that there are so many people in this country who actually believe that Jane Fonda "lost the war" for us that people can't tell if the comment above was real or a joke? And today their sons and daughters "stand behind the president"...

I only wish Intel would still find it profitable to put chip plants here in CA again. Of coures, that's a whole 'nother issue.

I imagine Intel would be happy to build a fab in CA if Californians would happily work for a Vietnamese salary.

1/07/2006 12:30 AM  
Anonymous tom faranda said...

The Cambodians might disagree with your glib assessment.

1/08/2006 12:39 AM  
Blogger Skippy-san said...

I was confused by your post. Are you saying we should not have intervened in Vietnam, or just not escalated the war to make it ours?

1/08/2006 6:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, tomorrow is the 39th anniversary of my husband's death in Vietnam - all your posturing does not affect me as I still ponder the waste of life - on both sides - that took place. I have 3 children who would give anything to have known their father. How many more children today wish the same thing - on both sides. What insanity are we commiting and for what? We are no safer now than 1967.

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